 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2014-12-21 03:09
I've had the first 167 for some time; however, I'm just now starting to include these on a daily practice basis. I do what most would recommend...practice slowly and try to be perfect before gaining tempo.
I'm thinking that these are so good that I might want to devote the bulk of my practice sessions (total practice time of about 1 to 1-1/4 hours per day) to these. Do you think a reasonable goal would be to try to get in one exercise per day, so that I could be through book 1 (1st 167) in 6 months or so, given my practice time limitations as stated?
This would mean that I could start the practice session off at a very slow tempo, and I would hope, within the hour or so, I would have the exercise up to a reasonable speed, so that the next day I could proceed to the next exercise.
Please let me know your thoughts on this.
Oh, I also have community band music much of the year that I would have to spend at least some of my practice time on.
CarlT
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Author: Eric V
Date: 2014-12-21 03:37
Hi CarlT,
I'm not a pro or a teacher but I have incorporated the Kroepsch exercises into my daily routine. First I choose one key (say E major) in the yellow Baermann book and play those for 20-25 mins and take a 5 min break. Then I find the Kroepsch page in that same key and work those for 20-25 mins. Then a 5 min break and go on to other exercises in any key (Kell Staccato, Bach cello suites, Rose etudes for example), break, and then on to orchestra music at hand. The next day you move on to the next key (F major). After you cycle through the major keys, move on to the minor keys. You will see tremendous improvement after 2-3 months!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-21 08:22
I tried the "perfect each one" route a long time ago and found that to be unsatisfying (some are much harder than others, no real tempo goals are stated so you can take them as doors to open toward technique rather than an end in themselves).
I prefer now to practice scales and Kroepsch exercises more in huge swaths. Real music organically ranges through various keys and taking that approach to practicing these exercises makes real world transitions easier. So, for example within an hour (running through each exercise just a few times just going for smoothness and accuracy with no particular 'quickness' to them) I can go through pretty much the first book. I find this better than concentrating on ONE key center for great lengths of time which may just make you less able to nimbly transition to another key center.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-12-21 19:19
I play through 50-60 of the Kroepsch studies, 2-4 times each week.
I'll do that for 3-4 months, then go to the Baermann for a few months,
then back to Kroepsch.
Great stuff - the more time you spend on scale patterns, the less time you have to spend fussing with band or orchestra literature - you'll be able to sight read just about anything if you learn all your scale patterns.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-12-23 06:16
I used them all the time with my students in my teaching career. I would assign a full page to my performace majors and half a page to my music ed majors each week. I would instrust them to play them slowly to get them very even, with a good tone and good intonation always playing the dynamic as indicated or doing more if there was nothing indicated by following the line. Then each day play them 4-6 times each as needed and play them faster each day until they can play them as fast as possible but evenely and musicially. Buy the weeks end they should be at their max and only have to play them twice each. They do not have to all be played the same tempo. Some can end up 120-144 to the quarter and others 100 to the quarter. Each one is a separate exercise and needs to be practiced as if it is a short passage from a solo work so they learn how to practice difficult passages in a longer piece, a few lines at a time.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2014-12-23 16:25
Books three and four have some great things also, though I'm not sure they are readily available.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: James Langdell
Date: 2014-12-27 22:31
As Ed said, don't ignore the dynamic markings. Those are surprisingly varied and sensitive. Well worth following to take the considerable mechanical challenges into expressive musicality.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-28 21:16
I like to play the Kroepsch as if there are no markings at all. If you do it that way, you find that 'expressively speaking' many of the printed directions are "BACKWARDS !!!!"
I have run across a several exercise books by Lyle "Spud" Murphy. Within them his exercises lack any dynamic, articulation or phrasing indications at all. There are long legato lines over huge swatches to indicate the over arching form, but NO MARKINGS. I found this liberating and started applying this to much of what I do.
Interestingly, we have (on this very forum) brought up quite a bit about Leon Russianoff. One of the things he did with the music of his students was "white-out" most of the printed directions for dynamics and phrasing and let the student arrive at the (if the student's name was Bob.......) Bob edition of whatever he was playing, with THAT being the 'best edition.'
I rather like this concept.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-12-29 07:44
CarlT wrote:
> I'm thinking that these are so good that I might want to devote
> the bulk of my practice sessions (total practice time of about
> 1 to 1-1/4 hours per day) to these.
These are good exercises, but I can't myself get up any kind of enthusiasm for making them the primary focus of anyone's practice routine. YMMV, but for me, it would be important to include more variety and more "real" music. These are certainly more rewarding - and fun - to play than straight scales or arpeggios, but in essence that's what they are - scales and arpeggios dressed up to be more varied. They are still very short spurts of technique with no real compositional content.
> Do you think a reasonable
> goal would be to try to get in one exercise per day, so that I
> could be through book 1 (1st 167) in 6 months or so, given my
> practice time limitations as stated?
All of them aren't by any means equal. Some are more demanding than others, and that becomes even more true as the key moves away from C major. One-a-day might be hard to keep to consistently.
You might take two or three chosen for different characteristics (based on a scale, on an arpeggio, a combination with added chromatic embellishments) - or maybe an easy one, a little harder one and one of the more difficult ones - to work on concurrently for a few days. You could swap out the easy ones more often and keep working on the harder ones until you're comfortable with them.
Another valuable way to use material like this is to come back to the ones you've learned in order to stay fluent with them once you've gone on (exactly as we all do with scales and basic arpeggios).
>
> This would mean that I could start the practice session off at
> a very slow tempo, and I would hope, within the hour or so, I
> would have the exercise up to a reasonable speed, so that the
> next day I could proceed to the next exercise.
>
This really depends on the specific number you're working with. And if you do perfect an exercise in one session and then can't play it the next day if you try to review it, you really haven't learned it. So, again, one-a-day may turn out to be a plan that's easier thought of than executed.
> Oh, I also have community band music much of the year that I
> would have to spend at least some of my practice time on.
>
The band music is valuable because there's an end goal of performance involved, but it has the disadvantage of not turning over very often, so you can get stale on it. The exercises - whether Kroepsch or something else - can go a long way toward developing technical fluency, but don't build a sense of extended structure. It isn't a bad idea to find some easy music in some kind of collection that's easier than your current level and spend just a few minutes sight-reading something each day. Even reading the melody (usually the soprano line) in the hymns from a church hymnal or the melodies in a supplemental book of any of the band methods on the market can provide a sense of structure while letting you relax and just enjoy the sound of your instrument.
Playing doesn't always need to be hard work.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-12-29 18:32
Paul, I studied with Russianoff for three years, he never whited out a single dynamic in anything I ever used. Yes, he encouraged me to play musicially but to start with the composers markings. The reason I have my students play the markings, when there are some, is so they learn to observe the composers wishes and then become creative when playing other etudes and music as well. A player has to do both, even if you don't agree with the composer when playing in an ensemble, small or large.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-29 21:19
There was a video of Leon Russianoff speaking of this very idea of whiting out most if not all markings............his words, not mine. But everyone varies there teaching emphasis over the years and from student to student. I just happen to like THAT particular Russianoff RIGHT NOW.
As for the Kroepsch exercises themselves I would say it does them a disservice to say they are dressed up arpeggios and scales. They are in fact a good overview of most of the standard classical technique. Like anything else though, you can over do it. They are a fairly finite range of ideas, so don't think they cover ALL the bases. They do, however give you some better sight reading skills by virtue of getting you out of the typical 'scales' and 'arpeggios.'
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-12-30 07:57
Paul, I have no doubt that Russianoff may have done that with some students but I've heard many teachers lecture on teaching techniques that their students said they had never done at their lessons. They may be good ideas but a good teacher uses different teaching techniques for different students. As I said, he never whited out anything on my music and I don't remember a single student that said he did it to theirs when I studied with him from 60-62. He may have decided to do that later in his teaching, I don't know and to tell you the truth, I don't agree with it. I played in an orchestra and chamber music all my life. It was important to play what the composer wrote and a student must learn to do that. But they also must learn to play with imagination and originality when performing a solo work or even a solo in the orchestra if and when the conductor allows the player to do that. Usually when there's markings in the score you're expected to follow them so you're not getting louder when everyone else is getting softer or your playing forte when your supposed to be playing piano. You get the idea. It's important to be able to follow directions or you get lost.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: hartt
Date: 2014-12-30 10:51
Many a teacher has used these in formulating a student's legato, interval perfection, scale patters, etc.
Leon Russianoff relied on them and mine have his pencil markings throughout.
A renowned IU professor uses them most especially when getting a student back into 'shape'.
There is also the Franz Klein staccato study bk which is not necessarily for tonguing exercises but will wrap your fingers up just the same.
Less 'melodious' in structure but invaluable are the MIMART studies Kal Opperman used in wkly lessons. (like the next, long, long out of print and also done on that THE DUCK oversize printing)
Further study can be had from the very rare KLOSE 633 Exercise book. (this was European published (non The Duck) early in the last century....1911 / 1913 ???, I'd have to look at mine and dbl ck)
dennis
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-31 00:03
I think if we step back from the obvious points of "following directives," there is also a very clear point that the print (no matter how detailed) leaves out SO MUCH of what makes music that the performer MUST put in. Students can be mystified by letting their eyes stifle their ears (and intuition). I only put out the idea that you can use these mini concertos (if you will) to ply our MUSICAL skills, and maybe by extension allow for more interpretive moments throughout everything that we do....while 'following the intent of the composer.'
...............Paul Aviles
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