 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kilo
Date: 2014-11-22 18:12
The long clarion B on my Yamaha 221 II doesn't "speak" the way the other notes around it do — it feels "reticent" and doesn't ring. There's no problem with the low E. I thought it might have something to do with the low Eb not opening far enough but if I remove the bell completely the sound doesn't improve. It's annoying because if I have an eighth or sixteenth note passage which crosses the break and returns, all the notes will be clear except for the B which tends to disappear.
I've tried voicing it differently but it never really sounds that strong. This is the only bass I've spent any time with so I don't know if it's common to other Yamahas, whether it's typical of basses in general, or it it's just specific to this particular instrument. I can understand the acoustic challenge which might make this note hard to play — trying to play Bb using the Eb and the register key doesn't work either — but the difference between the B and the C is so striking that I wondered if there might be a remedy.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-11-22 18:49
Since it is just the "B" that is noticeably different, my guess is a slight leak that would not be as prominent the register below.
You could play around with the keys down there to see if you can use an adjustment screw to get you out of the problem, but basses are pretty finicky and I would probably wind up having your favorite tech go through it with you.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2014-11-22 23:55
Stuffy long B on a single register key bass clarinet is the result of the compromise location of the register key vent -- acoustically it's just in the wrong place to give you a perfect B; if it were moved to fix that problem the notes above the treble clef would suffer proportionately. Test you can do: try playing the long B using the top RH trill key rather than the register key (use your R thumb). You should notice a more resonant and better in tune B.
Obviously that's not a practical solution to the problem for everyday playing! There are other solutions that will, at least, help minimize this problem. First of all, as recommended above, make sure the instrument is free of leaks. Secondly, you might try using slightly softer reeds. Different mouthpieces might give you a better note -- worked for me with older Leblanc. (I also had a second register key fitted to open the Bb vent -- giving the same effect as the trill key referenced above.)
The upside of the single register key is that the throat Bb is better than on every double register key instrument I've played. The compromise Bb/register key vent on "pro" instruments is really not in the right place nor the right size for either function and ofter leads to response problems on the cusp between the two vents playing in middle of the second register.
Larry Bocaner
National Symphony (Washington), retired
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-11-23 09:33
It is not really possible to know through a web post whether the problem is the regular difference in resistance of the throat notes and B, or something like a leak. It's entirely possible that some players would describe the regular difference, without any leaks, just like in the first post.
The difference in resistance between throat notes and B exists on every clarinet. It is magnified much more on single register key bass clarinets. When moving from A# it's even bigger because Yamahas (both real Yamahas and Vito made Yamahas) have a separate tone hole for the A#, making it respond better than it would otherwise.
I found that the throat Bb on some single reg bass clarinets ,eventhough they have a key for that note, don't necessarily sound better, if not worse, than pro bass clarinets where the throat Bb uses the compromised lower reg key.
Post Edited (2014-11-23 12:21)
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Author: kilo
Date: 2014-11-23 19:14
Thanks for the responses — very interesting!
Quote:
Test you can do: try playing the long B using the top RH trill key rather than the register key (use your R thumb). You should notice a more resonant and better in tune B.
And how! That makes a huge difference, but as you say, not a practical fingering in most cases.
So, I will definitely have this checked for leaks but I'm tending to think part of the problem is the instrument itself. Probably not worth my having a second register key added on but it does make me think I may be in the market for another bass at some point. I've been pretty much playing bass exclusively now and while I'd love to have a low C professional instrument I haven't found a call for one in the concert band music I'm playing. Any particular models which would be worth looking for in the used instrument market?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-23 19:24
Even though you may find the majority of concert band bass clarinet parts don't go below low Eb to warrant getting a low C bass, often it's good to have a low C bass to drop some things down an 8ve to cover other players arses if your tubas or bassoons struggle with certain low notes at certain volumes (ie. at pp).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-11-24 00:27
It's amazing how a little leak in one of the lower key pads will not effect the low notes but will effect the notes on the break, especially the B since all the pads cover. Have it checked, you will find a small leak.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Keith Bowen
Date: 2014-11-24 02:54
Try the LH G sharp key instead of the trill key. Works on some instruments and is more practical.
Keith
Keith Bowen
Emeritus Professor of Engineering, Warwick University UK
RCM Scholar supported by Pamela Weston Award
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Author: kilo
Date: 2015-04-07 12:26
Well finally, with the summer music season a few months closer to reality, I brought this Yamaha to my tech, a 3 hour round trip. I'd pretty much decided that if nothing could be done I'd probably have to start searching for a replacement bass. Luckily the tech saved me a lot of money:
Quote:
- the b clarinet did have 2 issues directly affecting that B, one being that key was bent, the other being the register key out of adjustment. That horn actually plays VERY well, I was kinda surprised! Best playing student bass I think I've ever played.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2015-04-07 23:33
Sometimes when a 'long' altissimo note plays poorly, the problem is a leak in the upper joint. Places I would look include the little adjustment screw in the throat Ab key (it may have turned to slightly lift the key off of the A key) or the pads beneath the LH 2nd & 3rd fingers, or the the pad at the top of the lower joint above 1st finger. You can use a piece of tape (0.5 mil thick typically) from an audio cassette attached to the end of a toothpick as a feeler. Also, some clarinets have a slotted neck holder at the top of the upper joint that reveals an opening (that causes trouble) if you have the neck pulled out a lot (try sealing with a bit of cork grease).
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