 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lbh
Date: 2001-04-18 19:38
Okay, I am seriously starting to freak out here. I have my All State audition on May 5..( less then 3 weeks.. ) and I cannot get my solo together. I'm playing Mozart Clarinet Concerto. When alone i can play it beautifully, and just perfect but when i play with the piano, I cannot keep in time. My pianist says I'm not "feeling the beats" and such, but I don't know. I spent a whole lesson today just getting yelled at...What can I do.. I play with a metronone, and with a CD.. Will It just take time ? What can I do ?? Please help, i'll forever appreciate it.
Laurie
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-04-18 19:46
Gosh I wish I could hear you. The Mozart concerto is simply one of the most difficult pieces of music out there (and it gets even more difficult as time goes by), for all kind of reasons.
The idea of playing it "perfectly" is so far from my humble potential. I envy you.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-04-18 19:47
*You are the soloist*. The pianist should be accommodating himself/herself to the way that you play it. Even if you are wrong, they should be the one to change. This is not a duet of equal or near equal partners but a showcase for the solo instrument.
Of course if you do have some serious problems, you need to fix them. However it sounds to me like you are allowing the pianist to intimidate you and then you mess up. Take control and don't let the pianist impose their opinion on you no matter how many times they've played or who they may have accompanied in the past.
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-04-18 19:51
You know, I remember a Star Trek episode where Captain Picard was playing (a whistle flute?) something with a woman playing piano. He messed up because she didn't keep perfect time like the computer did. He got a little frustrated until he fell in love.:) Anyways...
Playing with a CD or a metronome means "perfect time", but it might not help you as you play with a real person on a piano. The CD and metronomes will play exactly the same way every time. We're (as human as we are) are not perfect performers, and your teacher might think that she is. Just do your best to keep in time WITH HER. She won't care about your CD or metronome, but how you blend and accompany her.
Have patience. Smile and nod a lot.:) Good Luck!
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Author: joseph o'kelly
Date: 2001-04-18 20:06
I dissagree that you should accompany the piano. It will not teach you how to perform right. Last year I played the third movement of the Shumann Fantasy pieces. My acompaniest got off two measurs during solo/ensemble. Was I supposed to keep time with her? NO! I kept my beat until she caught up with me. If I didn't then I would have had a train wreck. This year I got a new accompaniest and she listnes to how I want her to play the piece. My advice is to let your acompaniest listen to the CD so they hear how it fits together and work slowly on the tricky passages.
Good Luck
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Author: Cass
Date: 2001-04-18 20:50
Yes, it will take time and a lot of rehearsal to get use to playing with someone else. But there is another issue. Who is that pianist? Is it your teacher? Because if not then someone should teach that uppity pianist their place!
It is one thing if you are playing something like Brahms where piano and clarinet are equal. The piano has an equal say in that. But the piano part of the Mozart concerto, is accompanying. You are the solo and you decide the major things. The accompanist can make some suggestions politely but has no business to yell at the soloist. Any musician should not be yelling at another one anyway. That is unprofessional. Can you get a different pianist? This one sounds like a primadona and rude. If it is too late to change to another piano for this situation then I would find somebody else for next time and let this one know why, too.
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Author: Mike Irish
Date: 2001-04-18 23:11
I believe the Band, ensamble, soloist should be the focus....
the school bands here in this area, the band director dosnt even direct....
he is playing the piano, and alot of times the mic is set up so the piano over powers the band..... like it is the directors idea to be in the lime light...
the Acommpianist ( sp ) is just that, to acompany the soloist, not the soloist to acompany the pianist.....
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Author: Mindy
Date: 2001-04-19 01:35
I agree with Dee you need to be the soloist......... the pianist is suppose to follow you, not you following the pianist. I hope you do well on your audition.
Mindy
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-04-19 01:42
Agreed...if you are paying an accompanist they should follow you..PERIOD! The best accompanist I had was a young lady (then) by the name of Echo Meyer. If she hadn't already had a boy friend I would have been after her like a duck on a June bug! Echo had a hearing problem. No, she wasn't deaf...but she did wear a hearing aid in her right ear. I had to stand where she could see me. She new her parts so well (memorized) that she could watch me almost 100% of the time. She worked so very hard to overcome her disability that she made it an asset. I don't know where she is today...but I still am grateful for knowing her and her ability to make me shine at my junior and senior recitals in college!
John
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Author: LIZZIE
Date: 2001-04-19 02:02
Same Pro here but you need to practice more with the piano and make-sure you are confortable with it! Maybe get your pianoist to make- a tape and you can listen to it a lot to get that comfortable feeling with it! hope i helped,
lizzie
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Author: Jim
Date: 2001-04-19 04:43
A good pianist is not the same as a good accompianist. Piano players are everywhere, but an accompianist who deserves the title is worth his/ her wieght in gold. Yes... Obviously almost, the accompianist should follow you and communicate with you through eye and head motions to assist you. Do make sure that you both can see each other well. I suspect you may have the worng person, but I also suspect time and other conditions might prevent you from making a change so... attempt to communicate and make the best of it.
Our organist at church is not the best technical organist I've ever heard (though he is very good!) but his skills as an accompanist are absolutely excellent and many times he has "saved the day."
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Author: den
Date: 2001-04-19 06:02
actually, some some good pianists make excellent accompanists. for example, I had a competition last month, and I was playing the malcom arnold sonatina for clarinet thrid movement (furioso). For all you people that have played this know that every beat has to be together, otherwise the whole thing is practically a solo clarinet without accom. . Well, the only time we had to practice was the morning of the competition. He sightread the whole piece, and got every beat right, even the ones with the grace notes where we play together. He was a very good piano player, and a VERY VERY VERY good accompanist.
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Author: Alice-MArgaret
Date: 2001-04-19 11:05
I am Mindy's mom (responded earlier) who is a pianist but also an accompanist. I have played for MANY middle and high-schoolers (as well as college students in my time) and I have to allow them to be the artist. I tell them they are the artist. They pick the tempo they pick whether to skip beats and measures, etc. It is up to me as the accompanist to follow them. Even as middle-schoolers, I allow them to be the leader. Most students that age don't have the grasp of music and leadership but at rehearsals I will help them with timing, rhythm etc, but I tell them everytime --- "Whatever happens at contest, I WILL FOLLOW YOU". I suggest that you find another accompanist (if your accompanist is your teacher then this will need to be approached VERY GENTLY) and find someone who will allow yout to be the artist. You have too many things on your mind at your audition to "wonder" what is going to happen to the piece when your accompanist doesn't follow you. I accompany my daughter for solo's and it is very hard -- as a graduate in Music Ed, I want to "correct everything" that she does. Still at solo's SHE IS THE ARTIST (she loves the fact that I tell her this) and I follow everything that she does. My job as an accompanist is to put the soloist in the spotlight and make them SHINE. If I don't allow them to do that I have failed. Get yourself a new accompanist.
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-04-19 17:59
OKAY I'll correct myself! Sorry. I only had one accompainist in my "recital career" and she was my private instructor as well. It was for a recital on movement 1 of the Mozart Concerto K622. I wish I was a better player for that challenging piece, but oh well. Yes, she did follow me, but I guess I felt that I followed her too!
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-04-20 12:53
We seem to be drifting a bit here. Let's go back to basics.
On the Concerto Proper
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Mozart Clarinet Concerto is very difficult. Any teen who thinks that he/she is playing it beautifully and perfectly is barely scratching the surface. Have some respect and humility about this piece, and maybe progresses will resume.
Mozart meter is actually quite regular for most of the first movement, except here in there around the couple of fermenta. One might argue that the secondary phrases (with a more introspective mood) could be played a bit slower. But within a particular segment, things are usually played quite strictly.
Young musicians usually slow down when there are many notes. Is it what is happening here? Is there a musical intent behind the tempo variations, or merely random wandering around the beat?
On the Role of the Pianist
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No, no, NO! the pianist is not a secondary element in any performance. So many people on this post are working very hard to establish who runs the show. Playing music with others is team work, amongst equals.
When the concerto is played with an orchestra, the Soloist and the Chef follow each other, BUT ULTIMATELY THE CHEF REMAINS IN THE DRIVER SEAT AS FIRST AMONGST EQUAL. In fact, Chef and Soloist enter a dialog and make some interpretation decisions jointly BEFORE rehersals and concerts. Then, both are expected to implement RELIABLY the results of these decisions. Should they get out of synch, THE SOLOIST USUALLY ADAPTS. You simply do not rush an orchestra and expect it to skip beat to catch up, etc. From this perspective, as a developmental exercise, a clarinetist should also learn to stay in synch with the piano, especially if the clarinetist has caused the problem in the first place.
Your pianist is probably a much better musician that you are. The piano is extremely difficult to play, and playing orchestral reductions of great concertos is hideous. You probably play this concerto on your Bb right? The piano is not happy playing this concerto in Bb. So, if you pianist can play it well (and I do not read anything to the contrary), she is an accomplished experienced musician whose opinions matter a lot.
So, how about sitting down with the pianist, agree on tempo and interpretation, and then deliver as promised? If you wander, then shame on you! get back on your feet and execute the musical intent that you joinly agreed on. If you cannot implement your musical intent, change it, practice, but do not muse randomly.
Respect your pianist! As a clarinetist, you are a lonely musician and you will depends on others for the rest of your musical life to bring the clarinet to its full potential. A good pianist who is willing to spend time playing with a young clarinetist is extremely rare since most pianists are very busy working on the most challenging repertoire of all instruments.
If you got yelled at, maybe it is the results of the same mistakes being made over and over, weeks after weeks, with no visible improvements, a few days before the concert. Stop arguing! Pause, listen, understand, reflect, decide, practice, learn and play.
By the way, was it really yelling, or merely pro-active real-time coaching built totally out of proportion by an over-sensitive, stressed-out, defensive teenager, with a concert in sight and a sloppy performance anticipated?
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Author: Lbh
Date: 2001-04-20 20:53
Mario, Give me a break here. I am a sixteen year old, going for my first All State audition. I'm nervous, okay ? My pianist is the vocal director at my high school. He has his doctoral degree in piano and is amazing ~ He was also my past music theory teacher. I have played with him before ( I play flute for choir ). However this was the first time I performed with him on the Concerto. I didn't mean it literally when I said I know it perfectally. When it comes to music, there is never perfection. There is always something to learn or something to improve on. I am an extremely humble player, and the least bit egotystical. I know it pretty well though. The concerto is amazing. I love it. Your last paragraph really hurt. Yes, I may be stressed, but it was not "merely pro-active real-time coaching built totally out of proportion by an over-sensitive, stressed-out, defensive teenager, with a concert in sight and a sloppy performance anticipated?"
Thank you everyone else for your posting, I really appreciate it
Laurie
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