 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-04-19 00:09
Hi all,
Anybody knows anything about them?
There are a few places on the web where they are sold for little money.
http://www.charlesfail.com/Duques%20Clarinet.htm
Any information to share?
Thanks,
-Sylvain
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2001-04-19 18:01
Sylvain --
My best guess is that this horn is a stencil from one of the Paris makers. Some of the big name players from years past imported French clarinets into the US and sold them under the player's name, such as H(arold) Freeman or G(ustave) Langenus. This horn would then be an A(ugustin) Duques.
Augustin Duques was a great French clarinetist who emigrated to the US c. 1920. He played solo clarinet in either the Boston, New York or Philadelphia orchestras, and later taught I believe at Julliard. I have his recording of the Mozart Quintet made c. 1950 on one of those small LP record labels such as Stradivari or Haydn Society. Duques was one of the primo French style players, in the same elite class as Louis Cahuzac and Charles Draper.
Charles Fail is an established and reputable dealer. If you are interested in buying the clarinet, why not call them and see if they will give you a 5 or 10 day trial and a refund if you don't like it? They are asking only $475, which is a quite reasonable price for a good A clarinet.
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2001-04-19 18:37
John--
Great post! The breadth and depth of knowledge on this BB (and people's generosity in sharing same) continually amazes me!
Todd W.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-04-19 22:52
Sylvain -
Augustin Duques was principal clarinet in the NBC Symphony under Toscanini for most of its existence. He later taught at Juilliard. I've heard that he was not a particularly good teacher. Everything came naturally to him, so he never had to think things through and couldn't explain them to people who didn't have his talent. Also, he had a thick French accent that made him hard to understand. He died about 20 years ago.
He was a phenomenal player. I have a Mozart Quintet on a 12" Stradivari LP that is as good as any version I've heard (coupled with an equally good Mozart Horn Quintet). He also played first clarinet on one of the best recordings ever made of the two Mozart Serenades for 8 winds, with Arthur Winograd conducting "The Arthur Winograd Wind Ensemble," an ad hoc group made up of NBC Symphony and New York Philharmonic players. It appears often in used record bins under various labels, such as MGM and Everest.
The A. Duques clarinet shown on the Charles Fail site is obviously a stencil. It's definitely not a Buffet, since the key shapes are wrong. For example, the key guide for the top two trill keys is smaller and placed lower than it is on a Buffet, and the strut that connects the right hand rings to the pad cup has an "S" shape that doesn't appear on Buffets. Still, it's not a bad looking instrument. If you can get it for say $400, it could be a good A clarinet to have until you can afford a top model. I'd want to play it first, though. See the message I just posted at http://www.sneezy.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=41584&t=41584 about what to listen for when you try it out.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-04-19 23:12
Thanks all,
Unfortunately I don't have the cash even for a $400 instrument.
I knew about A. Duques although I learned a great deal more today ;->
I was just curious about the instrument and wondering why it was so cheap.
Thanks all,
-Sylvain
PS: I'll definitely look for that recording, I have to say that being a happy owner of the Wright, Marcellus, Lancelot and Shifrin Mozart concerto recordings, I'm curious to hear if Duques can still surprise me...
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2001-04-20 01:38
Augustin 'Gus' Duquès was my teacher in Juilliard from 1968 to 1972. He was born in Toulouse, France on May 3, 1899 and died in New York in the summer of 1972. He won first prizes at the Paris Conservatory in 1917 in Clarinet (the solo work that year was the Messager 'Solo de Concours') and in Solfège. He could solfège faster than any of his students could play! He was a wonderfully charming man and a very fine musician. Teachers of the other woodwind instruments at Juilliard when I was there felt that his students played the most musically of the clarinet students at that time. He played the world premieres of the Trio version of Stravinsky's 'L'Histoire du Soldat' and the Poulenc Duo, among many others. When he was a student, he once played the Debussy 'Premiere Rapsodie' in the presence of the composer! He was brought to New York by Walter Damrosch to play Principal Clarinet with the New York Symphony (before it merged with the New York Philharmonic to become the Philharmonic-Symphony of New York.) He began teaching at the Institute of Musical Art in 1923, before it merged with the Juilliard Graduate School to become the Juilliard School of Music. At some point, he left the faculty, to return in the late forties or early fifties. His playing career was illustrious. In addition to the New York Symphony, he played in theaters and was on the staff of NBC from 1931 and principal clarinetist of the NBC Symphony under Toscanini from 1937 to 1949, when he left to join the WOR Symphony under Alfred Wallenstein. He opened the famed Radio City Music Hall in 1932 (or '33) and married one of the original Rockettes. He was a member of the Goldman Band for nearly fifty years.
The Duquès Clarinet was manufactured by Thibouville Frères in France and imported to the US by Harold Freeman. It was considered to be a very good wooden student instrument.
He recorded the Mozart Quintet but I don't believe that he ever recorded the Concerto.
Steve Hartman
New York, NY
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Author: TBristow
Date: 2013-09-04 01:09
Attachment: 100_0103.JPG (118k)
Attachment: 100_0104.JPG (120k)
We've inherited a Bb/A pair of clarinets which have a logo that is just like the Buffet logo except that it says "A. duQues" instead. I have attached a digital photo of the logo.
My questions concern these instruments' history. My repair person and others says they are "Buffet" and they play well.
Please let me know if you have any information to offer.
Thanks
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2013-09-04 01:31
Steve Hartman knows what he's talking about. I'd believe him before most repairpersons.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-09-04 02:25
If you can post photos of the entire instrument from the front, both sides and the back, I can tell you from the key shapes whether it's a Buffet. The original photo posted in this string showed an instrument that was definitely a Buffet, and Steve Hartman is the one who knows.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2013-09-04 02:30
Nice that this subject is still alive more than 12 year later. I stand by my original post that the Duques instruments were manufactured by Thibouville Freres. However, if Ken Shaw opines, based upon observation, that the key work is by Buffet, I will defer to his opinion. We could very well both be right in this instance. The proof of the pudding, of course, will be in the playing of the instrument.
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Author: Rezzie
Date: 2013-09-04 16:24
Steve, I'm without a dog in this discussion, but I will note that the Thibouville Freres and Buffet logos are so alike in overall form, when accounting for the differences in the verbiage within the oval area and the actual initials represented on the bottom of the logo (I think each have a lyre on top), that it is indeed possible to mistake a Thibouville-like logo with "A. Duques" stamped in the middle for a Buffet logo with the same alteration. I won't weigh in on the keywork.
Just a thought. Don't know why I find all this so fascinating, but i do.
Thanks to all for the info to date. You can likely get a good look at the Thibouville logo on Jeremy Soule's Vintage Clarinet Doctor site or Phil's Clarinet Pages site. Don't need to embed a bunch of pix here...
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