 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-10-28 08:29
So, I've been trying out new equipment lately and I've been told it sounds better by my teacher, and I trust my teacher it's just that I don't hear a difference myself. I can't really distinguish tone right now while i'm playing at least and the crappy stock recorder on my tablet isn't really working to well. So any good ways to record for an accurate sound? I want to be able to hear what others hear when I play.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-10-28 12:10
Get a recorder like the Zoom H1 - don't be fooled by its cheap price, it's a really good device. As it fits nearly everywhere, you'll discover a lot more uses for it.
--
Ben
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-10-28 14:25
A friend of mine introduced me to the Zoom H2n a few years ago. These devices are amazing. I quick look at the difference between the 1 and the 2 seems to be the number of microphones. The 2 has many different "pick-up" options with its five microphones as opposed to just two. Why could that be important? The clarinet generates an "omnidirectional" sound and much of what we perceive of its color comes from the reflected sounds from around the room. The Zoom H2n can pick up and record all the room sounds (front and back of the device) giving you a truer sound picture.
I can only really judge from what I heard of the results of the H2n, but at $170.00, it's still a bargain for a single, portable unit that can record as well as it does.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2014-10-28 16:08
Hi,
I looked at a couple of videos and this device looks like a real winner. I look forward to the reactions of others who are using it.
HRL
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-10-28 22:23
I suspect that devices like the Zoom are really, really good. Probably quality recordings that rival a $10,000 setup, 40 years ago.
I use a Sound Devices 702 recorder with Earthworks QTC-40 microphones. Expensive, but very accurate ... the microphones are flat from 4 Hz to 40kHz.
But the Zoom might be about as good, for all practical purposes.
I once owned a bunch of Schoeps microphones during my professional recording days but sold them ... not worth keeping $4000.00/pair microphones around to just look at and infrequently use.
The Earthworks are the most accurate microphones I've ever heard. I still own several and just couldn't part with them. They are scary.
Microphones are not truly complicated, sophisticated devices and most of them are well overpriced. Some of the Asian made mics are just at good as the German made, and at a fraction of the price.
Best bang for the buck, IMHO, are the various Cascade ribbon microphones ... some models less than $200.00 each. Smooth and musical but easily damaged. I couldn't keep mine all working ...
Tom
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Author: ramsa
Date: 2014-10-29 00:04
The Zoom H4N is truly awesome, and not much more money than a decent stand-alone mic...
My $0.02
This is a genuine signature.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-10-29 06:11
Well my band actually has a zoom which is really cool, but I want to be able to record myself even though it's cheap its still $100 + any super budget mikes or maybe just an app that enhances the recordings on mobiles?
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-10-29 07:42
I'll visit my local Guitar Center and check out the Zoom. Sounds very handy.
Also, some of the less expensive Audio Technica microphones, the "20" series are really good for the buck. I think $100 or so could get something outstanding.
The deal about expensive microphones like the Neumann and others are not that they are accurate, but they have certain colorations that enhance some types of instruments. The Earthworks are uncolored and flat ... really a laboratory microphone. A Neumann M50 (for example) is anything but uncolored and flat, but sounds wonderful for some applications. And, you could pay $10,000 for a vintage one in perfect condition.
Microphones lose their identity in real music and speech applications. There have been blind subjective listening tests performed on microphones and the results are usually inconclusive, often with surprising data. For example, a Shure SM57 ($100) might be voted as superior over a Neumann U87 ($3500) for recording certain female voices.
Tom
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-10-29 14:31
And then we also may be chasing a phantom.
I recall the first time I paid to be recorded in a studio (it wasn't cheap). The result was much less satisfying than some of my earlier attempts with questionable consumer products at my school's band room or the local church.
TWO POINTS HERE
ONE: The recorded sound (or rather the playback sound of the recorded sound) has an innumerable amount of variables to it (the addition or subtraction of color, reverberation, distance from the listener, separation, spacial perception etc). One single 'take' can sound almost infinitely different just based on the whims of the recording engineer (that is, if there even is a competent decision maker involved in this process).
TWO: The clarinet is notoriously difficult to record satisfactorily in the first place. It's and omnidirectional instrument (the sound doesn't spew out of one point like the human voice or a trumpet). Much of the sound also comes from room interactions (even in large halls). Try playing outside in the middle of a grassy lawn (for as long as you can stand it). That's the opposite of playing in the bathroom (lots of bouncing off tile surfaces).
I don't necessarily think we are good at filtering out the extraneous and superficial aspects of the sounds we hear. What is really important is how we subtly phrase a passage of music, how we stop and start notes, how much resonance we achieve (can you always feel the clarinet vibrate under your fingers?).
For me, listening (and I mean REALLY, OBJECTIVELY listening) to yourself in the moment is the most important aspect of practice and performance. I recently saw a student put on headphones to listen to his favorite pop music and then he sat down and started practicing scales. I just about fell over.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-10-29 23:50
I agree with Mr. Aviles ... the clarinet launches sound in various directions, depending on which notes are coming out. I normally try to record clarinet in a room with some reflections that tend to integrate the sound and I experiment and space the microphones to average out the ragged polar response of the clarinet. Not like a brass instrument, where all the sound comes out of the bell.
I'd say all instruments, where the sound mostly comes from the tone holes, have this challenge in recording ...
And all the variables with recording equipment (especially the microphones), the room, any near reflecting boundaries and their frequency characteristics, and engineering choices/tweaks can generate a variety of results.
Tom
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Author: MSK
Date: 2014-11-01 16:47
As a practice tool, I either use the Iphone App MTSR and listen through headphones (not the built in speaker) or the recorder function of Smart Music. Both will pick up intonation, dynamics and significant differences in tone. I doubt that either would show subtle differences in tone between say two quality mouthpieces or instruments.
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Author: MSK
Date: 2014-11-03 06:42
Sorry, I don't have android and don't know. MTSR stands for Multi Track Sound Recorder. Try variations on that name when you search their app store. I've noticed in computer magazines that many apps are multi platform and the ones that aren't usually have something similar that might come up in the search.
Incidentally, if you find something like MTSR, it is fun to record duets or trios with yourself.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2014-11-03 23:10
I think it wouldn't make sense to use a smartphone to check my sound quality or record for dubbing; I am sure quality of microphone and electronics, in particular the AD- converter, would be far inferior to modern, cheap high resolution pocket recorders like the Zoom mentioned above or e.g. my Tascam DR-07. I frequently also use it as microphone only for hard disk recording.
Of course that sort of setup makes sense only if you have, for playback, decent headphones or hifi amp and speakers, and, in case of hard disk recording, a quality microphone and sound card.
My Tascam, in the same price range as Zoom, has two stereo channels switchable between XY and AB modes, and I think that's sufficient for solo or small group takes.
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