 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: joseph o'kelly
Date: 2001-04-18 17:29
I have recently been in a few arguments defining prodogies.
My coment was that there is no such thing as a prodogie on the clarinet.
My basis for this is that to play clarinet well one must master a solid tone. To do this one must first devolop a solid emboucher which comes with years of practice. I define a musical prodogy as someone who can play an instrument at an early age as well as older, professional musicians. I belive there is piano and violinists who are prodogies but impossible to find a clarinetists who is truly a prodogy. I have on occation been called a prodogie which is wrong. I got to my level through hard work and practice and working ahead. Even Benny Goodman has been called a prodogy. I do not think this is true in his playing sence, but perhaps he is a prodogy of playing jazz. His classical playing is not up to par. I believe there is a such thing as a gifted clarinetist who can catch on quicker than others but I do not believe there is a such thing as a total clarinet prodogy.
What do you think?
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-04-18 19:29
Joseph -
It's always difficult to define the age at which one can be a prodigy, but age 12 is probably within the range.
Julian Bliss, age 12, is generally agreed to be a fully-formed, professional level player. Read the next-to-most-recent number of The Clarinet, where there are pictures and descriptions of what was by all accounts an astounding recital he gave at the most recent ClarinetFest.
I heard Lorin Levee (now co-principal in Los Angeles) at age 12, and he could play anything at that age.
Stanley Drucker made an astounding record of the Bartok Contrasts at age 18, and, I believe, was being seasoned in Montreal for the New York Philharmonic job when he was 16. I heard Larry Combs play when he was 17, and he was already as good as anybody.
There are prodigies on clarinet, just as there are on violin and piano.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Daniel Bouwmeester
Date: 2001-04-18 20:06
I always thought this term would really describe an intellectual capacity.
By that I mean, that, for me, a prodigie, is someone who would have a very big understanding for music, and phrasing, very early, and much more than all other people of his age.
I don't think technique has much to do with being a prodigie or not. The number of hours are the same for everybody.
I have seen kids of 14, at the conservatoire in Paris, who could play Nielsen's concerto, without a mistake. But these people would lack of musical maturity. I mean... it would be musical as a brick.
Myself I was able to play some difficult stuff pretty early. I have a recording of myself at 12 playing Weber's quintet which is really unlistenable. I didn't have at all the feel for the music at the time.
People like Yehudi Menuhin (which I consider as a prodigie) could do a performance of very high musicality. Yehudi was able to interpret his pieces in his own way, and set a reference to the musical world (even as a kid). His amazing technique he had it because his parents pushed him like no one ever pushed someone.
Later on in ones life, being a prodigie will not give you an advantage really compared to other professional musicians. Average musical maturity meets at one point, and being a known prodigie will mean you haven't had a proper youth.
Result, many depressions, suicides..etc. Menuhin had his depression too.
I always thought it would be wiser to have a baccalaureate before going into professional music.. YOu know.. just in case something goes wrong... (Like a cut finger, or a lip cramp).
I wouldn't recommend any parent that has such a kid to push him to the top too early. And really, I wouldn't recommend anyone to go into professional music.
Regards
Daniel Bouwmeester
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Author: Cass
Date: 2001-04-18 21:24
How early is too early for clarinet do you think? My son is turning 8 soon. He listens to me practice and he is asking about his own clarinet hinting at it for his birthday. He took Suzuki recorder already, his little sister is in Suzuki class now and they both seem to have good ears.
I let him try out my clarinet and saw his hands are plenty big enough so that is not the issue. He is tall for his age and has big hands to grow into, so he will probably be a tall man. He is a strong boy taking karate, so I don't think weight of the clarinet would be an issue. But I just worry about timing. They don;t have band for his school until 5'th grade. He is finishing up grade 2 now. What if he has some private lessons and is ahead of everyone? Do they bully and taunt someone who is ahead ? (teachers pet?) Do schools think somebody outside the system shouldn't be in there and he would miss out on band if he was too far in advance?
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Author: beth
Date: 2001-04-19 04:06
Cass
We wrestled with the same issue in our household. My boys, who are 9 now, wanted to start playing instruments last year when they were in 2nd grade also. Our school system pulled the plug on the elementary school band program 2 years ago, so they wouldn't even have that to feed into. And to top it off, one of them wanted to start violin. Our middle school and high school doesn't have an orchestra program so we were concerned that our budding violinist would be excluded from playing in school band with his brother and he would have hurt feelings because he couldn't play in the school band with the violin. Well, we held off for a year but they still wanted to start lessons. Because we were afraid their enthusisam would wane if we held off until they hit 6th grade for the school program, we went ahead and started them on private lessons this spring. One's playing alto sax and the other, bless his soul, decided he would learn percussion (we promised him he could still learn the violin). We also worried about how they would fit into the school program when they reached middle school. But after talking with the band teacher there we didn't have any qualms. They would feed into the advanced band program. Also as an incentive to practice, they'll be able to play in the community band with their sister, mom and dad when their skills reach that level (which will probably be 6th grade, maybe 5th if they work really hard). We all practice at the same time and what a cacaphony of sound our household is in the afternoons.
You may have to look for some alternative programs outside of school for him to play in so he doesn't get bored with his school program for awhile. For example where I live, we have a community band, an arts center that also has a band and our high school band director has organized ensembles after school that are open to any child, regardless of academic grade level, to play in if they meet the playing level.
As far as the teasing and bullying goes, I know in our experience, it hasn't been bad at all. Their sister didn't start playing until she was in 7th grade. She took up the clarinet and within two months she went from beginning band to advanced band. By the end of that school year she had basically outgrown the middle school program. She wasn't teased about her achievement until she bumped the 1st chair 1st clairnetist down to 2nd chair 1st. But she coped with it just fine. To combat being bored in 8th grade band she started to learn the oboe and that has kept her on her toes ever since!
I've never known a school to reject a player who's skills are "above" grade level. Our directors embrace them and nurture them, and we've seen that the kids tend to work harder when there are "more skilled" musicians in the band.
Based on what we've done, I'd say give private lessons a go. His instructor may know of groups that he can play with once he gets going. Music blesses their lives in so many ways outside of band.
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Author: Cass
Date: 2001-04-20 13:45
Beth, thank you, you are thinking along the same lines as I am about what is best for the kids. That is my main concern, not to step on his enthusiasm while he is so eager for it. I keep thinking some of his friends are always after their parents for some outrageous stupid expensive sneakers and my boy ask for a clarinet. That seem to me to mean something important.
I talked to my own teacher who is in theory retired from teaching and I asked her how she would feel about teaching somebody as young as my boy. I said if she only felt like having one student then I would let him have the lesson. She is in late 70's I think, maybe 80's and I don't want to pressure her if she need to slow down. She said she could teach us both, so that is no problem.
I know this teacher from experience and she is really, really good IMHO. She is a nice person and not the yelling and screaming type, but she make her point firmly and she is the no nonsense type. She use to teach both kids and adults, oboe and clarinet. I think my son would do well with the same type teacher I do because we have personalities a lot alike. With my little girl everything in life is a great big giggling game and nobody can resist her but he is more serious and quiet. He will do best with a teacher who is quiet and dignified with him and respect him. He likes to feel grown up. Another thing I am thinking about him is that he has a long attention span for a boy that young. He is patient, a good student in school. He is already in karate but I think he can handle lessons and practicing.
I showed my teacher an old clarinet I had and she said don't stick him with that, so I will buy him a clarinet of his own. I tried to trade the Artley to the music store and they won't take it which is not a surprise, so that goes in the charity box. I had enough of it. It can go to somebody who can't afford any clarinet at all (better than nothing.) Having something brand new that is his alone will mean something, I think. My music teacher said she will come to the store with me if I pick her up, and she will help me pick out three good clarinets, probably Vito like mine at the store. Then I will take my son with me to the store to choose which of them (include him in deciding so it is more *his*.) Later I will save up some more for my wood clarinet that I want, but for now I think he need this. Thank you for all the information Beth, you are very helpful.
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Author: Andrew Chiciak
Date: 2002-01-11 17:19
Julian Bliss is without a doubt a clarinet prodigy at age 12. I heard him play the Weber 2nd
from memory with the Chamber Orchestra of Philadelphia and he astounded my both with
his amazing technique, tone, and superb musicianship. He truly interpreted that piece better
than anyone I have ever heard, except for maybe Sabine Meyer, who is without a doubt the
greatest clarinet soloist that ever live...and I have heard them all.
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