 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-10-11 17:43
Hello all,
I recently acquired a very nice C clarinet which I find plays very well. Overall the intonation is good, but I've noticed that the "ring notes" in the lower clarion are quite sharp. I've tried pulling out the barrel but that makes the throat tones much too flat. I suspect that the mouthpiece might have something to do with it so I might try a few different mouthpieces, but I'd like some input from someone who knows more about small clarinets.
So my questions are as follows:
What type of mouthpiece might make the ring notes more in tune (in terms of bore size, chamber volume, ect..)?
And, other than a mouthpiece, is there any way to bring down the pitch of these notes without affecting the corresponding notes in the upper register?
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2014-10-11 21:31
Adjust the barrel as far out as you can so the throat tones are not flat. Then pull out in the middle to get the ring notes down to pitch.
It may be that you got an instrument designed for A=442 or even higher.
Moreover, you may not ever know what type of mouthpiece an instrument is designed for, not even if the manufacturer is still in business, because nobody still there may remember. Manufacturers tend to protect this proprietary data. Also, they may have contracted out their designs, in which case they will be clueless.
If the instrument was designed for a larger chamber size than is typical now, then pulling out the barrel would not make the throat tones flatten as quickly as you are experiencing. An instrument designed for a smaller chamer mouthpiece than currently typical would make the throat tones flatten quicker when puling out. An exeriment to verify this would involve putting some kind of putty into your mouthpiece chamber to reduce the interior volume.
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Author: tims
Date: 2014-10-13 01:01
As far as I know the Fobes extension is only available for Buffet C's, but I would check with him anyway if yours is not a Buffet.
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Author: tims
Date: 2014-10-13 01:53
There are C clarinet mouthpieces, but as far as I know, no one is currently making any mouthpieces specifically for C clarinet. The one I have is an old Morgan with a C6 facing. I occasionally see these show up for for sale online. Most newer C clarinets are designed to work with Bb mouthpieces, but if you have an older horn, you may have to look for a mouthpiece with a smaller chamber than average. Walter Grabner and Edward Pillinger claim to have mouthpiece that work well with C clarinets. I have not tried either.
I assume by "ring notes" you mean middle F, E & D. Be sure that when you pull out at the middle to try to tune these middle notes that you don't end up making the lower register (B/A/G) flat as these notes are far harder to lip up than the middle register is to lip down.
If both registers are on the sharp side, you may be able to make adjustments by placing small pieces of electrical tape on the inside walls of the tone holes. Start with a small piece of tape, about 1/4 the diameter of the tone hole and trimmed in the other dimension to slightly smaller than the depth of the hole. Stick this piece of tape on the inside wall of the tone hole under your first finger. Place it just under the rim of the hole and on the top side (nearest the mouthpiece). Play a low B natural and then a middle F# and check the tuning on each. If the notes are still sharp, remove the tape and replace it with a larger piece of tape (1/2 the diameter) and try again. Keep doing this until the pitch on both notes are a close to correct as possible. Do not use a piece of tape larger than 3/4 of the diameter of the hole. If you need to adjust more, leave the larger piece in place and add a smaller piece on top of that one, again starting at the upper side of the tone hole. This way you build up mostly on the side of the tone hole closest to the mouthpiece.
Once you are satisfied with this you can begin working on the tone hole under the second finger and begin tuning Bb/F. Moving finally to the third finger tone hole and tuning the A/E.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-10-13 03:00
I think there might be some confusion here so I will try to elaborate.
The notes that are sharp are the C, B, and A in the lower register, The rest of the notes throughout the range of the instrument, including the throat tones, are very well in tune. The ring notes in the upper register, G, F, E and D, are in tune as well. By pulling out the middle joint I can get it to the point where the lower notes are about 7 cents sharp and the upper notes are about 5 cents flat but thats as good as it will get.
The clarinet an old Buescher "American Professional" hard rubber clarinet. It does not have a poly-cylindrical bore which I feel is part of the problem.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-10-13 03:34
This characteristic sharpness in the lower Bb, B, A are very typical of many earlier larger bore French Bb and A clarinets. It seems more prevalent when these toneholes have a significant amount of undercutting.
My Leblanc LLs certainly need a lot of humouring to keep those pitches down, especially in pp. But at least a sharp chalumeau is more manageable than a flat clarinet register.
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Author: donald
Date: 2014-10-13 03:40
I don't want to sound rude, but I'm very curious as to why you called these notes the "ring notes". I've never heard that term before? just asking because I'm interested, not to make some kind of "point".
dn
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-10-13 03:55
I've heard other people use the term ring notes before, not sure exactly where I picked it up.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2014-10-13 04:12
On an intermediate level Bb Tribert clarinet, I observed a similar RH bottom register sharpness. For that, I made a reamer that I used to ream the barrel to be like a Moennig barrel, which solved the problem for that clarinet. Filling the undercutting on the affected tone holes is difficult to do, but it might help. Good luck!
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Author: tims
Date: 2014-10-13 04:14
Also , clarion, is generally used to describe the middle register, not the lowest register (which is normally called the chalumeau register).
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Author: donald
Date: 2014-10-13 04:48
Oh ok, I've not heard it before in USA/NZ/AUS/UK/Germany but you learn something new. Maybe someone was refering to notes you play with fingers that may have rings on them?
Low register- chalumeau
Upper register- clarion
nasty register- altissimo
(my spellings might dodgy)
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2014-10-14 18:50
You can adjust the pitch of individual notes by effectively decreasing the size and location of the next venting orifice by adding small bits of tape to the next tone hole, starting at the point of the arc closest to the mouthpiece end of the clarinet. My own instruments have a modicum of tape which has remained in place over the years. I learned this technique from Harold Wright -- subsequently I passed it on to Michael Rusinek. I don't care for pulling at the middle joint -- affects too many other notes that are not part of the problem.
Historically "Mystic Tape" was the medium of choice; don't know if it's still available. Clean the tone hole with alcohol before applying tape -- be sure to stay away from the bore --and of course the "fly."
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