 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-13 21:00
I've only ever seen one brand new Selmer Prologue back in the mid '90s when it came directly from the distributor, but have just finished servicing one which is from just before that time (an F series) and was surprised to see the top joint tenons are plastic sleeved as are the lower of the barrel sockets and lower joint socket. They haven't completely lined the sockets, just the walls are plastic sleeved.
I'm surprised they did this on their entry level clarinet to be honest as surely that is only going to put the production cost up, but I think it's still a good idea as the tenons and sockets fit nicely and probably never had any problems with binding as some all wooden tenons and sockets can do on new instruments.
Not sure if they carried on doing this over the course of the production run of the Prologue, but I would have preferred to see fully lined sockets (instead of just the sides) where the end grain in the bottoms of the sockets was also covered, but I sealed them with wax which is what I normally do on unlined sockets (and the ends of tenons where they aren't fitted with metal tenon caps).
Another nice feature on this one are push fit speaker and thumb tubes with double O-rings instead of being fitted with shellac to seal them, so these are easy to remove when it comes to cleaning and oiling the bore. The tonehole chimneys are ebonite inserts on this one instead of being integral or inset wooden ones.
Things I don't like are there's no cut-out on the underside of the throat A touchpiece so the LH1 vent pad cup is limited as to how much venting it can have and the smaller pad cups are relatively thick sided so pads are either a very tight or very loose fit with only a 0.5mm difference in pad size when using leather pads.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2014-09-14 06:52
Chris, I have an Arthea that doesn't have plastic-lined tenons or sockets.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-10-05 01:19
Taking the cue from the Selmer Prologue I decided to sleeve a badly rocking middle tenon on a Peter Eaton International with plastic instead of fitting a metal tenon cap and building up the other tenon ring with superglue and wood dust.
I fashioned the tenon sleeve from a plastic oboe tenon cover (although they can easily be machined from PVC or Delrin rod), machining the inside out to fit tightly on the turned down tenon and glued it in place with epoxy. I left the inside of the plastic rough to provide a better bond - once the sleeve was glued in place I turned the cork slot, leaving the upper tenon ring wider than the end one to add more stability (which is how I believe tenon rings should be - the tenon ring by the shoulder is the most important one).
The fit is an excellent one in the socket (probably the best fit I could possibly achieve), it glides together smoothly and nicely as well as holds solid and doesn't rock even without the tenon cork fitted. The plastic provides a good feel and I can only assume it will never bind as wooden tenons can on unlined wooden sockets, so only time will tell how successful this is.
I'll put some photos on here when we have better light as it's too dark now.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-10-05 18:53
Attachment: eatoninternationaltenon 002.JPG (694k)
Attachment: eatoninternationaltenon 001.JPG (715k)
Attached are a couple of photos of the plastic tipped/sleeved tenon.
As far as the fit in the socket goes, it feels like the plastic tenons and sockets on plastic recorders in the way it glides together and holds well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-10-05 23:55
Chris, I hope you sold the owner of this clarinet a tub of decent cork grease. The only way a clarinet joint can wear this badly is by insufficient lubrication of the cork. As you know dry cork is like a fine abrasive and every assembly wears a small amount from the corresponding socket.
The only time I have had to do this so far was on a 1010 though there I sleeved the socket rather than the tenon.
Your technique looks like a good solution to tenon wear caused by unskilled sanding when new corks are fitted.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-10-06 00:15
Attachment: eatoninternationaltenon 003.JPG (713k)
Attachment: eatoninternationaltenon 004.JPG (680k)
The tenon has always been undersize as this clarinet is only a few years old - it hasn't ever been sanded, resized or worn out at all. The original tenon cork was very thick to compensate but that's still no good if the actual tenon isn't a good fit in the socket to begin with as it will still rock.
I serviced another International and that too had an undersized middle tenon, but it wasn't as wobby as this one so I left it as it was. This one is in for a complete overhaul as the owner doesn't care too much for the neoprene covered cork pads and wants cork and leather pads fitted.
B&H clarinets also suffered with poorly fitting tenons, some of them used the same width cutter to cut the cork slot so the middle tenon ended up with no upper tenon ring at all. The best B&H tenons I've seen are on the PVC bodied Edgwares where the tenons were all an excellent and rock solid fit in their respective sockets even without a tenon cork in place. Unfortunately the same can't be said about their wooden versions.
As this clarinet hasn't got metal tipped tenons I went with a plastic tenon sleeve and cut out the middle section to form the cork slot. It held nice and tight while the tenon was entirely sleeved with plastic but I thought it's best to stick with tradition and fit a tenon cork (see attachments). I normally fit a nickel silver tenon cap and build up the upper tenon ring with superglue and wood dust, then turn it down to make the edge of the cork slot good and turn down the newly formed tenon ring to make it a good fit in the socket so it holds solidly without the tenon cork in place.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-10-06 00:41
Chris,
It might be a move away from tradition, but with such well-fitting tenons wouldn't this be an ideal place to use "O" rings rather than cork?
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-10-06 00:54
I'm not a huge fan of how O rings feel during assembly - the joints have to be pushed to fit as opposed to being twisted and pushed together. It did cross my mind about fitting O rings but I decided to stick with tried and tested tenon corks.
I know Yamaha used to use O rings (with a tenon cork in between) on the middle tenon on the older plastic basses, but not sure if they still do on their current ones. The only other clarinets I know of that use O rings as standard were the Lyons C clarinets and the current versions. Maybe that's what made me decide not to go down that route.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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