 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: samjapan2014
Date: 2014-09-25 03:23
Do the clatinets have a brand or artist of the past that make/made the finest clarinets to date? Is there one line of clarinets that is by far the most superior of all?
Samuel Phillips
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-09-25 03:50
The best clarinet I've ever played is the Moennig-tweaked R13 that Robert Marcellus played in the Cleveland Orchestra.
The second-best is my R13 tweaked by Kalmen Opperman.
There are many great makers today. No single one is "by far the most superior."
More important, everything depends on what works for you.
A good thread on how to pick a clarinet is http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=339689&t=339659.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-09-25 04:27
Ken, wasn't Marcellus one of the fairly vocal proponents in his time of "blowout?" If so, would he have played only one Bb clarinet in his career?
Karl
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2014-09-25 05:25
I studied with Mr M at the end of his career.
I never did try his clarinet.
Not sure why not because he was always demonstrating on it even though he was blind and never practiced.
But he still had that wonderful sound and knew the audition excerpts cold.
His instruments were first worked over by Hans Moenig but when he moved to Chicago, he was a customer of the Brannens.
But it was my understanding that his pair of Buffet R13s were customized by Hans Moennig in a way that would not be worth doing in this and age ( $$$).
Moennig would work on the clarinets note by note and it would take months.
But the amazing part of this story is that if you caught Moennig at the right time, he would spend the same time on the instrument of a common student.
He just loved the art of creating a silk purse out of sows ear. It did not matter if you were Drucker or Joe Shmow.
Old School Indeed!!!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-09-25 05:55
Dileep Gangolli wrote:
> But the amazing part of this story is that if you caught
> Moennig at the right time, he would spend the same time on the
> instrument of a common student.
>
I can attest to that. He didn't charge students what he charged the pros, either. He would do small adjustments for me gratis from time, and I never brought a clarinet to his shop that it didn't play noticeably better when I left.
But, to the original question, clarinet design has made huge strides over the past 50 years. Apart from individual instruments that craftsmen like Moennig rebuilt basically to the demands of individual customers, the state of the art of clarinet manufacture in general has never been has advanced as it is today. And there are so many varied models and designs catering to so many different needs that it's now impossible to consider any one model, much less brand, an epitome of any kind.
And, by the way, Stradivarius violins are not everyone's ideal, either. Apart from the other well-known luthiers of the 17th and 18th centuries, there are modern makers whose instruments are prized by many of today's players.
Karl
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-09-25 19:22
When his admirers remarked how beautiful was the timbre of his Strad, Heifetz opened the instrument's case, listened, and said " I don't hear a thing "
richard smith
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-25 19:33
The hand finished B&H 1010s were rated very highly amongst British players back in the middle of the 20th Century.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-09-25 20:20
I'd put my MoBa in the Strad category
Have also a Prestige set that the setup took literally 25 hours in 1988 for Mark Jacobi to do.
I was there the whole time on about 8 different visits in the space of 2 months. Cost $1000 back then.
The MoBa (I have Grenadilla) I like better. Not from price, etc, but how it sounds and feels/plays.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-09-25 23:17
It is generally accepted that the violin design as perfected by Stradivarius and a few other contemporary makers is about as good as a violin will ever be. OK virtually every one of his instruments has been modified over the years to accomodate the stresses involved in playing in today's large concert halls and loud orchestras etc.. but the fundamentals remain unchanged.
The clarinet however even today is far from a perfect instrument and because of the design compromises needed to make it work is very unlikely ever to be perfected.
So there is no Strad equivalent in that sense, just a range of very fine models by some great makers which each attempt in their own way to make the best of all those compromises.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-09-26 01:52
I am of the opinion that the superior sound of early respected instruments of any type (certainly including violin and clarinet) had more to do with the precise dimensions of the instruments and their contained air chambers than the material defining those chambers. Which means that it is possible later for precisely controlled manufacturing to produce large numbers of equally good sounding instruments out of less rare less exotic less expensive materials, much to the distress (or disbelief) of the purists.
There are other considerations than just tone quality... playability may depend on many other factors. Clarinet keywork for example- unless you believe that blurb posted here somewhere about silver keys making nicer sound. ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2014-09-26 02:25
as succinctly as possible: 1. no 2. no.
Most of the people who ever made clarinets have passed into history and many of them remain unknown to us except sometimes as names. We have no idea today what their horns were like in most cases. Also before the advent of manufacturing, especially NC tools, clarinets were pretty much hand made so no two were exactly alike. Even the keys were made by hand until the late 19th/early 20th Centuries. We have no idea if some rude forefather of the village of Markneukirchen or Graslitz/Kraslice or Edgware or even Elkhart wasn't the greatest clarinet maker who ever lived.
Today, given that clarinets of the same model and year are likely to be very similar, before customization, it really comes back to the fact that it is the wizard not the wand. And wizards can do magic on many different wands.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-09-26 04:08
jdbassplayer, just to clarify my post wasn't meant to imply that there were not as good or even better instruments than a Strad. The point was that the fundamental "design" as evolved by Strad has not really changed in approx 300 years and modern makers are still building to essentially the same design.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-09-26 05:14
Norman Smale wrote:
> jdbassplayer, just to clarify my post wasn't meant to imply
> that there were not as good or even better instruments than a
> Strad. The point was that the fundamental "design" as evolved
> by Strad has not really changed in approx 300 years and modern
> makers are still building to essentially the same design.
>
Sorry, I misinterpreted your post. Yes I do agree that violin designs haven't varied much from Strads. His designs were without a doubt revolutionary for their time.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-09-26 05:23
chris moffatt wrote:
> as succinctly as possible: 1. no 2. no.
>
Chris, I agree with your answers above, but I have to play devil's advocate and suggest that your reasons don't all support them.
> Most of the people who ever made clarinets have passed into
> history and many of them remain unknown to us except sometimes
> as names.
I'm not sure which makers you have in mind, but certainly from the 19th century (and onward), the names Auguste Buffet and Henri Selmer are well enough known for their instruments.
> We have no idea today what their horns were like in
> most cases.
We have many of them still in collections. Someone knows exactly what they were like. Not me, but I don't really know first-hand what a Strad or a Guaneri are like, either, except to hear the updated ones in concert.
> Also before the advent of manufacturing,
> especially NC tools, clarinets were pretty much hand made so no
> two were exactly alike.
The same was certainly true for the great 17th to 18th century luthiers, including Antonio Stradivari, whose name started this thread.
> Even the keys were made by hand until
> the late 19th/early 20th Centuries.
As were the pegs, nuts, bridges and tailpieces, to say nothing of the bows, and frogs.
> Today, given that clarinets of the same model and year are
> likely to be very similar, before customization, it really
> comes back to the fact that it is the wizard not the wand. And
> wizards can do magic on many different wands.
Yes, certainly. And there are so many masterful wizards with so many different preferences in wands that no one wand manufacturer has attained god-like status. The wands are all worldly tools, each to its own wizard.
Karl
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Author: ramsa
Date: 2014-09-26 20:13
Like guns or guitars, the CNC technology has given us great products at reasonable costs.
A classic, iconic Gibson Les Paul sunburst from the late 50s might sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars, while you can get a current clone for a couple grand. (The clone might even play better...)
It's all in point of view, IMHO...
This is a genuine signature.
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2014-09-26 23:58
I think from a construction point of view and the quality of materials, the Wurlitzer clarinets are some of best instruments made today.
I don't represent them in any way. Just my 2 cents...
Rob
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2014-09-27 00:58
Doing blind tests is rational. The study jdbassplayer is referring to was very ambitious. There is some romanticism in this Stradivarious hype. Violin making should have made some progress in 250 years, as everything else.
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Author: tims
Date: 2014-10-08 02:21
Modern clarinets are generally superior to older instruments in many ways. Intonation is by far better on these instruments than anything produced more than 30 years ago. With that said, you will always have people who believe a particular instrument from a given manufacturer at a given period of history is the "best" clarinet ever produced. This usually comes down to personal preference in tone quality and what that person has become used to hearing and what "feels" right to them when playing.
No two people can agree on what the perfect sound of a clarinet should be, but today we have far more choices than we have ever had to find what best suits each of us personally. And that's what it boils down to, finding what works best for you.
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Author: donald
Date: 2014-10-08 03:07
I've stayed out of this, but here's my contribution....
Some English players (Alan Hacker for instance) have gone through a phase (I know of this being the case in the 1970s and 1980s but don't know if it is continued) of believing that Boehm clarinets made around 1900 (plus or minus) by... Albert?... provided a quality that was unrivalled by modern instruments [I can't remember exact details and can't easily find the book in which I recall this being mentioned. I seem to recall Tony Pay also having such an opinion but not 100%]. In 1989 or 1990 I played for Alan Hacker and had some lessons with him- and had the opportunity to play one of his clarinets from this historic era. At the time I was not a good enough player to really make an assessement of the instrument.
Some European players collect and LOVE the instruments made either side of 1900 by Oskar Oehler, in fact Marie Ross owns and performs on a number of these clarinets, and I recall Herr Mueller in Hamburg proudly showing (and demontrating gorgeous tones) on his Oskar Oehler vintage clarinet.
These would be the two examples I can think of of a clarinet that is like a "Stradivarius of the clarinet". The fine and beautiful R13s I have played from the 1960s don't really count as the best example I have encountered have been completely rebuilt by Hans Moennig- Buffet, the maker, provided the legendary craftman with a "blank" from which to build a fine instrument.
Modern makers? Schwenk und Seggelke are making the finest instruments that I know of- I am sure that there are other good makers, but I consider these as the Stradivarius of today.
dn
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Author: kenb
Date: 2014-10-08 05:50
http://www.amkrautfamily.com/uploads/7/5/3/3/7533275/2486290.jpg
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Author: brycon
Date: 2014-10-08 21:19
Easy: Vito Dazzler.
The pink models have an especially resonant tone, comparable to the great Italian violins of the 17th and 18th centuries.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2014-10-08 21:36
"Pink Dazzler THIS, Pink Dazzler THAT".
Those models might work just fine for your Chardonnay swilling Upper East Side crowd, but just remember, clarinet wasn't always so respectable a profession as those models would suggest.
You ever try to get out of a bar in Detroit at 2am with a Pink Dazzler? Let me tell you, you'd better have a P-M Albert in your case.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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