 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ErezK
Date: 2014-09-17 15:00
Greetings. For most part I am very pleased with my Yamaha YCL-220 II Bass Clarinet. Good tone, intonation, etc.
I encountered 2 mechanical issues that I'd like to fix, and hopefully by myself.
1) Register tone hole pads get stuck. The pads just cling to the tone holes, so the spring tension is not enough to pop the out. If I clean them with cigarette paper, it helps but for a while. I wonder what would be the best way to clean them or the tone holes (alcohol or other solvent?). It happens with both pads associated with the register.
2) At cold temperatures, the pad under the RH D key does not pop up when the middle D key is released..
Let me try to explain it better. When I press the Left hand D key, it brings down a pad that is also connected to the lever that connects across the bridge (for the alternate fingering of Eb or Bb using the right hand). When the instrument is cold, that lever just gets stuck and and tension from the spring is not enough to push it back to the "open" position when I release the middle left finger.
As the instrument warms up or during summer that is not an issue. I tried to take it to a tech a few times, but every time the ambient temperature was such that the problem could not be replicated and the tech just shrugged it off... so if it is something to oiling (maybe some grease inside the rod is old and gooey) that could be fixed at home, that would be preferable.
Thanks for reading,
Erez
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-09-17 15:23
The register pad may just need cleaning. Take it off and use warm water and soft soap (a little bit of dishwashing liquid) to clean the pad; then dry. I would NOT play with spring tensions here because there is a very delicate balance with them that makes the whole thing work properly.
The "D" key is also a bit tricky. I sounds to me like the key is binding between the posts due to 'contraction' when things get a bit cooler. The fix itself is pretty simple. Remove the key and do some light sanding (400 grit silicon carbide) of the ends of the axle tubes (perhaps a little on each end). You want just a little more clearance so the key will move freely between the posts ..... even when it's cold.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2014-09-17 17:32
Hello Erez,
I too play a Yamaha BC 211, and I have the same problem with a sticky register key. I brought it to a tech, but the problem persists. Try putting a dollar bill between the pad and hole, then pull it back and forth to clean and polish the pad. This may work, or not.
Mike Blinn
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-17 17:41
You're best having the speaker key pads replaced with cork pads as they're less likely to stick.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Zebedee
Date: 2014-09-17 19:05
Guys, to clean a leather pad use Lighter Fuel (Zippo fluid style) on kitchen paper and / or cotton buds, remember that it may be the 'tonehole' which has the muck stuck to it, just as much as may be the pad which is dirty.
I would not recommend using a soap to clean a leather pad unless you can guarantee cleaning it all off - which brings me back to the Lighter Fuel.
(And for those who drink Coffee in McDonalds... Do NOT smoke while working with Lighter Fuel, it's flammable ! and work in a well ventilated area).
One method I have found works with cheap chinese pads is to deliberately wet them with cooled boiled water (i.e. sterile), don't soak them, just get them wet, as if condensation had been dribbling on to the pad via the tone hole, and then place some kitchen towel between the pad and the tonehole while it dries out. The kitchen towel appears to draw out some of the sticky 'stuff' which is left over on the pad from the processes the pad goes through at the manufacturers. There is often a colour you can see on the Kitchen towel after a couple of hours.
Cork pads do work well but don't skimp on the cost of the cork as they need to be setup perfectly flat and must not have any defects (knots) in the cork itself, as that may be an opportunity for a leak.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-09-17 20:56
simply store the instrument with a snippet of paper between register pad and tube/hole. Remove before playing.
Won't mess up the delicate spring balance and requires very little dexterity.
(Edit: I didn't mean to say that anyone in here is clumsy. But many readers are not comfortable with "going invasive" with their instruments)
Do likewise of you have other pads that are sprung shut (i.e. closed when idle).
--
Ben
Post Edited (2014-09-17 23:11)
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Author: kilo
Date: 2014-09-17 23:15
I've had the same problem with my Yamaha 221 and use tictactux's suggestion, storing it with a piece of cigarette paper, after swabbing it off with some VM&P naptha.
While we're discussing 221's, my long B sounds really "subdued". I thought it might be pad height but a little experimentation shows this not to be the case. Low E is speaks fine and so does clarion C. Is this common to bass clarinets?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-09-18 11:27
I also suggest cleaning the pads and the tone holes with lighter fluid. You can clean the pads with alcohol too, since flighter fluid and alcohol since each can sometimes work better depeneding on the type of dirt.
If you use soap and water, and I see no reason to do that but you can try, then make sure to remove all soap, or else they might get even more sticky.
Replacing the pads can help but the question is whether you can replace them yourself, since yo uwanted a DIY repair.
As far as the binding key, it's possible that it's so borderline and only get stuck in some situations like different weather, etc. The problem might be the key getting stuck between the posts like Paul suggested, but it's also possible that, if it is mounted on pivot screws, that it is getting stuck between the screws only and then sanding the ends almost certainly wouldn't help (unless it happens to get stuck on the very end).
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Author: ErezK
Date: 2014-09-18 16:04
Thank you all for the replies. I will try to clean the pads and tone holes with Alcohol first, mostly due to the fact that I already have some alcohol at home... although it is actually much easier to get the later here in Prague (more Tabac shops than pharmacies...)
Paul: I may try as you suggest, or at least take a look and see if some cleaning can help.
Nitai: what would be the solution if it is the pivot screws that cause it to get stuck?
Say I clean the rod with alcohol, what lubricant would you recommend for oiling the keywork?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-09-19 00:51
I totally agree wit getting a cork pad in the register key, that should solve the problem. The cork won't adhere to the hole as a soft pad will do forming an indent. I aslo agree with Paul about sanding the rods down very slightly.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-09-19 09:35
>> I aslo agree with Paul about sanding the rods down very slightly. <<
Eventhough you don't know if the key is binding between the posts or between the pivot screws? It's definitely possible that it's binding between the posts, but I would prefer not to sand the key unless I make sure this is the case.
>> what would be the solution if it is the pivot screws that cause it to get stuck? <<
First I would find out why it is getting stuck and where. Assuming it is mounted on pivot screws, you can try tightening the screws and seeing if it is getting worse.
Like you said it's probably borderline so it's only really getting stuck depending on weather. But that's with the spring. You can move the spring out of its cradle and check. It might mean disassembling and reassembling the key (and maybe other keys) since sometimes there isn't enough space for that. Eventhough it's not stuck enough (most of the time) to bind with the spring, it's likely that you could feel some resistance with the spring off.
It's a good idea to disassemble and check how easy/difficult it is to mount the key in place, sometimes you can find some resistance and where it is by just doing that. Check for burrs on the ends of the key and the posts too.
If you can feel resistance with the screws completely tightened, try backing them out slightly, only one at a time i.e. back out one, then tighten it again and try the other. If the resistance disappears when one or both screws are slightly backed out, then the key is not binding between the posts (at least when you check). It's also possible that it is binding both between the posts and between the screws separately.
If the key does bind between the screws and first check if one of the screws is bent at the end, or has a burr or sharp edge from a bump/dent, etc.
The simplest way to fix it is to back out the screw slightly until there is no binding and using weak thread locker on the threads. This is not a "professional" repair but hoesntly I've never seen this causing a problem or ever releasing and bringing the problem back.
The supposedly more secure and "professional" repair is to fit either the screw or the key mechanically, whichever makes more sense in each case. For example it might be that the threads stick out of the post, so it might be better to sand that, or the hole for the screw is distorted so it might be better to fix that, etc.
IME both methods would work and I've never had a problem with either. When there are no budget issues I use the second method because I know it works. The thread locker, although I've never had an yissues with it and I thinkit is also just as secure in practice, I just can't know it for sure.
Of course if the binding is really just between the posts then all of this is irrelevant. I just wanted to emphasize that I wouldn't want to sand the key without first making sure that's where the binding is.
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Author: ErezK
Date: 2014-09-24 00:32
Quick update.
about the pads, I cleaned them with alcohol and it is much much better now. I first used a piece of cigarette paper, soaked in alcohol, to apply it to the pad, and after a while used a clean piece to wipe it. Those are brown leather pads and it was a while before the paper ran clean, it kept leaving a brown-reddish mark.
I think at one point I will replace those pads as suggested to cork or a synthetic material.
About the stuck key. I tried to take it apart. Who ever tightened it at the factory was very enthusiastic with the screw driver as it was very tight. I guess that at the warm ambient temperature at the factory it passed inspection. Anyway, I released the screw, just a little bit and the problem seems to have gone away just at that.
Thank you all for the replies and willing to help.
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