 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-08-23 17:22
Niece's Band Director who had his kids get Hite Premiere mouthpieces/rovner ligatures and Vandoren #3 reeds to start, is teaching the open G with the right hand down including the R pinky.
Trombonist, jazz band guy who has taught for 27 years.
Ok, 27 is good, I've done 30, and as a Clarinetist, i can't believe he is giving them a bad resonance fingering right off the bat.
Open G is named that for a reason
His fingering makes anything lower going to G much more difficult.
They just started this week, so not like they are prepping for going over the break yet......
Jeez
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2014-08-23 17:38
I gave up years ago. Band directors have grade books, the kids do what those whom control their grades tell them.
When they get to 9th grade, and are no longer influenced by the middle school directors, I change a few fingerings back to the way they should be.
Another problem with teaching G that way is they learn to always have their right hand down, then you see them holding the clarinet wrong - right index finger resting on a key, or looped under the lowest trill keys. And that is a tough habit to break.
The smarter ones comprehend they have to put up with me for 7 years, much longer than their middle school directors, so learn to do things my way from the beginning. Sometimes I'll pull out a tuner - see, my fingering is better in tune, do it my way. But fighting the beginning band directors who don't play clarinet is usually a loosing battle.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2014-08-23 17:42)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2014-08-23 17:48
My first clarinet teacher in 1939 was a trombone player and look where I am today!
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2014-08-23 19:35
I just started a new 5th grade kid a couple weeks ago and was shocked when I turned to the page of Essential Elements where the throat A is introduced. There is a sticker applied over the fingering (in the same font as the book-I don't know where this comes from) which has several tone holes (entire RH and LH 2+3) filled IN LIGHT GREY...I suspect it's to show them that it is a possibility right from the beginning, but it surprised me. Any kid who looks at that on their own will just be confused!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-23 19:43
While resonance fingerings should be used where needed, they shouldn't be taught to beginners from day 1 as that will only add to confusion.
They should start to be introduced when crossing the break in preparation for a smoother transition to the upper note if needed instead of all fingers off-all fingers on, but only when the pupil is ready to use them.
On my Selmers as the open G and throat notes can be on the sharp side, I usually put my three RH fingers down for the open G to add more substance to it, but I wouldn't advise a beginner to use that fingering as they should learn how to balance the instrument without putting any extra fingers down for the open note.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: as9934
Date: 2014-08-23 23:34
So wait I shouldn't put my right hand down when playing open G? Because that's what I have always been taught to do. You guys are blowing my mind here.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2014-08-24 00:00
Forget rules. The only rules you need to follow are the rules of physics, and the clarinet will tell you when you're bending or breaking them.
If a particular fingering brings a note into tune, or helps with resonance, or is easier to use in a passage, or any combination of these, use it.
As in most things, rules are helpful when you're just starting out dealing with something you're unfamiliar with (as band directors must do every day when they have to deal with unfamiliar instruments), but there's no reason to slavishly stick to a rule when there are better alternatives.
Of course, if your band director still insists on the RH-down open G after you demonstrate that there's a better alternative, then that's another kettle of fish.
B.
Post Edited (2014-08-24 00:02)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CarlT
Date: 2014-08-24 00:13
Wow, and I thought my first clarinet teacher was pretty good. I remember that he chastised me after only 2 or 3 lessons that I wasn't putting right fingers down on open G. He said only play without fingers down in fast passages.
Later, I find that I did evolve into playing w/o fingers down much of the time anyway, but this was long after the first teacher.
BTW, he was a former band director.
CarlT
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-08-24 00:16
I have to assume that this and some other band directors are not picking on the clarinet- that they are equally inept at proper technique on every other instrument, perhaps including their own personal favorite.
So, anybody here have an equivalent to "RH down on open G" for, say--- French horn? ...snare drum?
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-24 00:27
The resonance fingers are just that, for 'resonance' when you are playing a long lyrical note and you want more........resonance.
There is nothing inherently wrong with RH 1,2,3 and the C/F key, but as Chris says it's really not an introductory technique.
Just as long as the teacher isn't expecting the students to play "G" in seventh position :-)
I had a somewhat related question. The "Break" was also just mentioned. I just tried something new with a rather precocious rank beginner. Since "THE BREAK" is a daunting mountain, I had this person play the "C" below the staff. Then I instructed to blow harder, with a bit more energy around the mouthpiece and add the register key. Low and behold he got a BEAUTIFUL clarion G. I hope that the comparison of the difference in 'feel' between those two notes will open up the clarion without a problem (only student's 3rd lesson).
Anyone else have a go at it this way?
..................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-08-24 00:34
according to the really good horn players I know, most school players don't shape or position their right hand (in the bell) correctly.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-08-24 00:42
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Since "THE BREAK" is a daunting mountain, I had
> this person play the "C" below the staff. Then I instructed to
> blow harder, with a bit more energy around the mouthpiece and
> add the register key. Low and behold he got a BEAUTIFUL
> clarion G.
This doesn't surprise me at all. The "break" problem tends to be more one of fingering - moving stepwise from one register to the other, especially up - than of actually producing the sound (witness the many times we've all probably had the student play C4 and *we've* opened the register vent while they're playing). IMO, waiting too long to introduce the clarion notes allows lots of beginners to get away with slack, poorly formed embouchures in the chalumeau range where they start because they can get away with it down there. Some students don't really get the idea of a firm, well-controlled embouchure until they start to play "above the break."
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-08-24 03:05
Quote by David. "Open G is named that for a reason"
Yes, because it is , well, open, as in 'no fingers' down.
Now here's the question that I have to ask here.
Just because the fingering chart has 'no fingers down' for 'open G' , why is it assumed that one is not allowed (even in the beginner stage) to put the right hand fingers including the LH & RH 'pinkies' down. This prepares them to cross over into the middle register , the so called 'break'.
All that has to be taught then is to remind a beginner to give more breath support to what are the worst notes on the Clarinet.
This is the method taught in the Tune A Day book one.
It's also the method that is detailed in Dr Downing's excellent book 'Playing the Clarinet is EASY.
I've always taught my students this approach and it always pays dividends when the time comes to have them learn to cross into the middle register.
BJV
"The Clarinet is not a horn"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-08-24 03:30
Barry Vincent wrote:
> ...why is it assumed that one is not allowed (even in
> the beginner stage) to put the right hand fingers including the
> LH & RH 'pinkies' down. This prepares them to cross over into
> the middle register , the so called 'break'.
> All that has to be taught then is to remind a beginner to give
> more breath support to what are the worst notes on the
> Clarinet.
I don't have quite as strong a reaction against this as David and some of the others have indicated. I do think that at the very beginning fussing over the extra RH fingers is unnecessary and makes the first few lessons, which generally progress from either G-F-E or E-D-C to using all six of the notes from C4 to A4, more cumbersome. It's much easier to teach E-G-G at the half-phrase of Mary Had a Little Lamb or the first 6 notes of Twinkle, Twinkle without making the child remember to add the bottom fingers. Going from C to G (C-C-G-G-A-A-G) is much more complicated and error prone if C-G involves moving fingers on both hands, with each hand moving in contrary motion. And then you also have to explain that A should be played with the right hand down as well, but be sure to lift the right hand when you go back down from G to F. I don't doubt it can be done, but it seems unnecessarily involved, especially since the beginning child (in most cases) won't hear any difference between G and A with fingers or without them and may well forget to put them all down anyway.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with adding the RH fairly soon in the learning process, presenting it as a way to improve the sound. That all four RH fingers may not produce the best resonance on a given instrument doesn't need to be an issue yet - fine tuning the resonance fingers can be a later refinement as long as using all four fingers doesn't actually muffle the notes. And this can, if an individual teacher finds it to be a help, be taught before the student begins to actually cross the "break."
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-08-24 08:02
Kdk, yes Karl, I agree with that. In the very first period of the beginners stage it is certainly best not to bother them with those extra fingers down. Much more practical to introduce this fingering after they have played around with the lower register first and are ready to attempt the middle register. This is actually what I do when teaching beginners and this is the approach of both the Tune a Day (Book1) and Dr Downing's book.
BJV
"The Oboe is not a horn"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: grenadilla428
Date: 2014-08-30 03:32
A band director I do work for used to teach open G this way as well, but doesn't after I disagreed with it.
I don't like that it typically makes the students play G rather flat and may or may not actually add resonance. I find that resonance fingerings take a bit of experimentation and might not be exactly the same from instrument to instrument. In private lessons, I don't bother with resonance fingerings until the student is making a solid, consistent tone and we can actually tell the difference when those fingers go down.
My two cents.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-08-30 05:26
Does seem likely to be a little stuffy for a beginner.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-30 20:18
I've had arguments on here in the past with some teachers about starting beginners on Vandoren 3s - I still don't understand the logic with that.
Also with high school players who compete with their peers as to who can play on the hardest reed by way of a superiority contest which is more likely a superiority complex.
To all players, use the reed strength that's best suited to YOU and don't be swayed what others are doing. Reed strength isn't an indicator of talent or musicianship - the wrong reed strength (ie. much harder than you can physically cope with) is an indicator of stupidity.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-08-30 23:42
We should recognize, though, that a Vandoren V12 #3 is not the same as a Rico "Orange box" #3. Vandorens are generally stiffer. I wouldn't use a #3 Rico to start a beginner, either - but I would use a #2-1/2 Rico on some mouthpieces.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2014-09-01 17:26
Everybody I know uses resonance fingerings differently, but these are mature players with lots of experience who listen to themselves well.
These kids are just starting and you have to make things simple for them. Every kid/mouthpiece/horn will be different but can a teacher really have time to taylor? A lot of teachers start out with the kids holding onto the thumbrest with thumb and forefinger, at least until they can play G/F/E/D/C, then use the thumbrest the normal way after these notes are secure. This spreads out the learning to one concept at a time. Remember, these are 10-year-olds.
My band director (flutist) wife asks all y'all clarinetists: in a mixed class of 25 or more, what strategy do you recommend to start kids on trombone?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-09-01 17:37
"My band director (flutist) wife asks all y'all clarinetists: in a mixed class of 25 or more, what strategy do you recommend to start kids on trombone?"
-----------------------------------------
Switch em to the Clarinet 
Actually, I tried playing Trombone as a beginner. Not a brass guy whatsoever....... Was so, so very bad at it.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2014-09-01 21:02
Ralph,
If your wife is half as beautiful as she is wise, you are one lucky dude.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2014-09-03 05:47
A member of my concert band is also a grade school music teacher. He plays clarinet,sax and some brass. He was asking me about this last year. I suggested to him that even though this seems to be the latest trend,it probably is a better idea to start the kids off with the simplest fingerings that will get the job done. You can teach them the resonance fingerings, as needed,when they mature as players in a few years.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-09-05 19:53
Re. RH down on "open" G for beginners, Karl wrote,
>That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with adding the RH fairly soon in the learning process, presenting it as a way to improve the sound.>
Makes sense to me. Teaching something soon is different from teaching it first. I agree that if a teacher tells 10-year-old newbies they should *always* put RH fingers down on open G, especially if s/he combines that instruction with insistence on Vandoren 3 reeds for beginners (!!), that's bonkers -- but showing kids resonance and alternate fingerings fairly early can help kids learn to listen to themselves and make appropriate decisions.
Does the note sound better or not? Does RH down matter more on a long, sustained note? Does it make fingering too difficult in playing rapidly up and down the scale? Those are useful things for kids to think about early.
Nobody ever said a word to me about resonance fingerings or alternate fingerings. I read about those things in high school. At that point I had a hard time changing fixed habits. I think I would have learned that material more easily when younger. But not on the first day of beginning band....
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2014-09-05 19:54)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2014-09-05 20:04
I'm not a teacher [yet?], but I do recall the Baerman method advocating keeping the RH down (either close to or on the keys) in a number of places presumably to improve pitch, tone and/or facilitate moving over the break.
However, thinking just from the perspective of a young student, I would advocate keeping the RH fingers "low" (perhaps not necessarily down) but it seems to me that pressing down the RH low-E key in order might also help stabilize the instrument, thus avoiding (embouchure) problems when supporting it only with the thumb-rest.
For those of you who are teachers, is this a valid consideration?
Bob Barnhart
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-09-05 21:11
Stability is the reason why some books sequence e-d-c first and leave f, g and then the rest of the throat until after the student has gotten used to holding the clarinet up. I have no quarrel with that sequence. But if you teach the beginner to rely on the rest of the RH to help with stability, you only postpone dealing with the thumb position.
To try to support the instrument with *only* the thumb and RH pinky is a balancing act that may make it harder for many students. Keep in mind that, depending on the beginner's age and size, the RH E/B lever can be an uncomfortable stretch to begin with (I don't even like to use it after 50+ years of playing).
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2014-09-06 00:34
David, have you tried to contact the teacher to ask why he is teaching right hand down with G. (and maybe why he is telling students to buy Vandoren 3s instead of, say Rico Royal or Mitchell Lurie 2s or 2.5s? It might give you an opportunity to improve his approach to instructing your niece ... or you might learn something new, yourself.
Out of curiosity, what fingering does Ricardo use for that G, particularly when he's using it as a tuning note?
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-09-06 07:16
Jack Kissinger wrote:
> Out of curiosity, what fingering does Ricardo use for that G,
> particularly when he's using it as a tuning note?
>
Which is why I've never been enthusiastic about tuning band clarinets to that G - too many possible variations that may or may not be well in tune with the rest of the instrument.
Would we necessarily expect that Ricardo (or any other well accomplished player) always uses the same fingering for throat G every time he needs to play it? I'm not sure why you asked that question.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2014-09-06 11:55
Karl,
I agree that G (concert F) is impractical for band tuning (and orchestra tuning) though not for the reason you suggest. When tuning band and orchestra, it's important to choose a note that works well for all the instruments in the ensemble. In orchestra where you are tuning strings, concert F is not practical (though one could give them a separate note if F was practical for all the non-string instruments). I have the impression though that Bb is a better note for brass instruments than F and that's why it's used for band.
I disagree with you about the quality of G on the clarinet. In my experience (and apparently the experience of many clarinetists far above my pay grade), properly vented G is a very stable note and a good note for intonation with the rest of the clarinet, Also it is close to the barrel. So, if you adjust your tuning by pulling out the barrel, you have a greater impact on the intonation of the G than the rest of the instrument, particularly the long notes clarion C and B. In other words, tuning to clarion C or B with the barrel may be overdoing things for the rest of the clarinet's notes.
This is why, when performing works for solo clarinet or with piano, many very good clarinetists prefer to tune throat G to the piano's corresponding concert F, adjusting the barrel and then clarion G to the piano's corresponding concert F, adjusting the lower joint. (Actually, I think you know this.) BTW, if you aren't already doing this, I think you would be doing your students a favor if you teach them this approach to tuning for recitals and competitions when they are playing with piano accompaniment.
The reason I asked the question is that I suspect Ricardo does not play G as "open G" except in fast passages. I expect he has a preferred fingering that he uses when intonation matters, including when he is playing with a piano. I'm curious to know what it is and I'd wager a tall frosty cold one that it isn't "open G."
But, beyond that, I notice that the band director David has identified has his beginning students using Hite Premier mouthpieces and Rovner ligatures, both of which I think are quite good ideas. I'm not so happy with his choice of reed but he seems to have reasons for what he does and I, for one, am curious to know what they are. In particular, in light of what Katrina wrote, I'm curious to know if teaching G with the right hand down from the start is a recent trend in pedagogy (rather than an individual aberration) and, if it is a recent development, what it's rationale might be.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2014-09-06 11:59)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kilo
Date: 2014-09-06 15:50
I don't think this has anything to do with resonance. There are passages where holding the right hand down allows for greater flexibility between the chalumeau and clarion registers. If students learn to leave the right hand down for open G and the throat tones initially, it's probably easier for them to make use the "right hand on" technique when necessary. They can intuitively figure out when it's not needed as their technique and their familiarity with the instrument develops.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2014-09-06 16:44
This discussion reminds me of a story told to me several years ago by a friend who isn't a clarinet player.
The friend was a college music ed. major at the time, and was taking class clarinet. The instructor was a graduate student and a performance major, a likable person who later went on to teach clarinet at the college level.
Although his students liked him, the instructor was mainly interested in performing and teaching advanced students. Teaching basic fingerings and techniques to a class of non-clarinet players wasn't something that thrilled him.
Sometimes, the regular clarinet professor would visit the class. On at least one occasion, the instructor started teaching his beginners about resonance fingerings. The experienced professor interrupted and nicely pointed out that these fingerings could and should wait until later.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-09-06 17:19
kilo wrote:
> I don't think this has anything to do with resonance. There are
> passages where holding the right hand down allows for greater
> flexibility between the chalumeau and clarion registers.
You're most likely right that resonance isn't the reason a band director would teach this way, but I suspect the reason has less to do even with future negotiation of the break and more to do with giving the students a secure hold on the clarinet while they play the throat notes. I still think it's not a good idea - too much unneeded finger movement from F to G (and back) and a basically illogical, no-intuitive finger progression up the scale.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rdc
Date: 2014-09-06 17:24
I have never seen a band method that did not introduce G with the open fingering. Most of them also introduce the right hand down technique when it comes time to cross the break into the clarion register.
That is a legitimate technique which I use for fast scale passages into and out of the clarion register instead of my normal resonance fingerings, although I don't often use right hand down on open G because I feel the intonation is too compromised for that note, at least on my clarinet.
If the band method introduces crossing the break with a tune that goes from open G to clarion C, however (and many of them do just that: "On Top of Old Smoky" comes to mind), then I will ask beginning students to use the right hand down technique for the G. Later this technique can be modified to be used only on G#, A and B-flat, if desired.
Perhaps the band director is asking students to use the technique right from the beginning in a misguided attempt to "save time" in the instructional process, thinking that he will only have to teach one fingering for the G. But I feel that teaching both fingerings in their proper place has the following pedagogical advantage.
Most students have a resistance to learning new fingerings for notes they already know, preferring the comfort of having only one way to finger any particular note. But musical instruments, and perhaps especially the clarinet, cannot be played that way! The sooner students learn the concept "There are several fingerings for this note, and you will need to know all of them" the better, in my opinion.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2014-09-06 18:15
Kilo,
I agree with you that the likely reason for teaching kids "right hand down" from the start has nothing to do with resonance. While it's something I've never really thought about before, it occurs to me that possible benefits from this approach (carried to the logical conclusion of teaching G#, A and Bb with the right hand down) include: (1) preparing hand position for the lower chalumeau, (2) preparing the students for crossing the break, and (3) (as a side effect), while this may not be the best resonance fingering for all (or indeed any) of the throat notes, it still probably provides at least a small improvement in these notes' tone and intonation. The obvious cost is increased complexity in learning the throat notes and approaching them from chalumeau C through F# early on.
But maybe the cost isn't as high as we might want to assume never having tried to teach that way. I wonder if this teacher, and perhaps others, have found through experience that kids don't have all that much trouble starting out with the right hand down and have concluded that the benefits outweigh the cost. IMO, something to think about. That's why I'd like to hear this guy's reasoning and experiences.
Best regards
jnk
Post Edited (2014-09-06 18:19)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2014-09-06 19:17
You may be right but it would still be nice to hear from him. Perhaps, David, if you would send his e-mail address to Mark or Glenn or me, one of us could offer him an opportunity to join the thread.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-09-06 19:28
It is more than possible, of course, to move from any of the throat notes to C smoothly without having any right hand fingers down. So teaching rh-down for any throat note in order to facilitate crossing the break is optional in any case.
I haven't taught beginners for a number of years. When I did, my favorite way to start a student in the clarion register was to start at G5 and work downward, getting step-wise to C and B and then going down over the register change before I had them try to go up. It's easy going down to get the student to keep his right hand in place until he reaches an F or F#. Introducing the clarion as a descent through the right hand avoids many of the problems of trying to get everything covered at once in On Top of Old Smokey or Mary Had a Little Lamb in F (A-C-C).
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kthln.hnsn
Date: 2014-09-06 20:36
If that's his reasoning, I agree, it should wait quite a while before teaching right hand down on open G. *Sigh* The joys of having a non-clarinet band director teaching clarinet. One of my old students had a band director whose major instrument was trumpet. He told all of his clarinet sections that to play in tune they needed to adjust their embouchure or tighten/drop their jaw, because if they pulled out the barrel then that would ruin the tone of the clarinet. Yikes...Of course it turned out to be a good teaching moment in our lesson on how to produce good tone and how to tune and why a Bb clarinet is called just that. Her teacher supposedly got a surprise the next day when she pulled her barrel out a bit and played in tune and with good tone before the band even tuned. But I suppose we must forgive band directors who weren't taught how to properly play other instruments or those that do not regularly practice instruments other than their own...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kilo
Date: 2014-09-06 21:58
Here's another pedagogical question — when I was learning to play the clarinet (and I was taught by a clarinetist) I was instructed to use both left and right hand pinkies when playing E/B. I believe later on this made it easier to deal with R-L-R when playing combinations like E-F#-G#. Are beginners taught to do this today? I can't remember if the left hand F was taught this way, probably not, but E definitely was.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2014-09-06 23:13
Both pinkies for E/B is still standard instruction. I've had a couple of students who, before they came to me, would only use L for the E/B and it costs them speed and accuracy in fast passages. Again, it's usually about teaching the appropriate alternate fingerings at the appropriate time.
EDIT:
Wait, do you mean using the L and R pinkies on each side's key for E/B???? That's ludicrous.
Post Edited (2014-09-06 23:14)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kilo
Date: 2014-09-07 00:52
Katrina, yeah my post was not clear; you answered it — appropriate alternate fingerings at the appropriate time.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2014-09-07 09:17
Kia ora,
I have been meaning to contribute to this thread for a while now, but only today have time to sit down and write. I agree quite strongly with David Blumberg on this issue- but for reasons not mentioned yet in the thread.
I currently teach students in the 10-17 age group though in the past I've have quite a few advanced students and have experience teaching at the University of Oklahoma, CCM and at Auckland University (NZ). Since returning to NZ I have found students here do not deal very well with “following instructions”, and generally teaching clarinet as series of “rules” (ie you MUST do this with your mouth, do this with your finger etc) does not work well here if one chooses to be too, er, vigorous. I have to convince my students to do things, rather than just instruct them- this has upsides and downsides, but one side effect is that I have to choose my battles and carefully consider the priorities of what I will be “hard arsed” about. [This is certainly the case in any country/culture, but here it does seem to me to be MORE SO as our educational system is focussed on guiding and encouraging the students interest rather than ordering them to follow instructions, for better or worse].
How does this relate to this thread? Well, I would have to say that many of the problems I encounter with older students (particularly those who come to me from other teachers) is that they don't really HOLD THE CLARINET PROPERLY. Let's re-phrase that- they don't hold the clarinet SECURELY. If the “main points of stabilisation” are the right thumb and the top teeth, then the fingers can find the holes more easily, and with lighter finger pressure. Using the fingers to stabilise (most commonly the right hand fingers, but I've seen many variations) slows down technique- often not to a level that is TOO inhibiting at a beginner/early level, but ALWAYS problematic once more advanced music is to be played.
Many of the things we do as players are unconscious and instinctive- and if the clarinet is not held SECURELY then players tend to use the bottom half of their embouchure to steady the clarinet. This creates a new set of problems- most notably “pinching the sound” when going to and from throat notes, and is just as limiting in “My Bonnie lies over the ocean” (starting on middle C) as it is in the Brahms 3rd Symphony andante.
SO, I make it a priority to get students to support the clarinet correctly with their right thumb, so that when they play open G the clarinet is only being held by the thumb and the top/upper teeth. As soon as their fingers are able, my students are warming up with me playing C/D/E/F/G in a scale, then slurring the intervals C-F and C-G in order to make this habitual. Most students I teach find that this improves the tone quality of the throat notes, frees up the right hand fingers (a common test is- how fast can they tremolo between middle C and low A) and makes larger intervals using the left hand (even though it would appear not to be affected by this) more fluent.
Some of my smaller students start on a C or E flat clarinet, but regardless of the instrument used I insist on this, and if the student is not physically able to play this way I regard them as too physically immature to play the clarinet.
There is a time for introducing “resonance fingerings”/Right-hand-down (for technical fluency OR improved intonation/tone OR both) and I have strategies/repertoire for this, however I consider the way of holding the clarinet described above to be a significant priority worth making a fuss over.
You are free to disagree, I doubt I will have time or energy to argue much so please don't be offended if I don't reply to any outraged posts.
Thanks
dn
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mike_T_Snyder
Date: 2014-09-07 09:44
Annoying, but at least they'll know what to do when they have passages which require the right hand. When I was teaching myself the Mozart Concerto (I didn't have an instructor), that part on the last page of the 3rd movement that requires the RH down G seemed impossible to me. On the other hand, my elementary school teacher taught LH C, B and C#, and never taught RH, so I always used those by instinct instead of the closer RH ones until many years later (but even now in sight reading I often revert back to LH in fast passages). My point is that I agree; you shouldn't teach students a different way of doing something or a track if they don't understand when they would use it, because while it may be helpful later, it certainly develops bad habits.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
