 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-08-14 02:03
Me and my friend David are casually looking at new mouthpieces, and have heard good things about the Vandoren Masters. We both use a Vandoren Vandoren B45 and a Vandoren 5RV Lyre in our daily performances but we both prefer the B45. Which masters mouthpiece matches the B45 the most? What are the tip openings and facings for the 13 series CL4, CL5, and CL6 mouthpieces? What do you guys think about these mouthpieces? What kind of reeds do you use with these mps?
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-14 04:40
I prefer medium closed mouthpieces such as the 5RV Lyre and the M13. Having said that, the CL4 is along those lines (I don't think Vandoren publishes any numbers on the Masters) and I use Vandoren 56 Rue Lepic number 4s.
The B45 is a rather open mouthpiece. I can't say for sure that the CL5 is close to it, but I dislike them both about as much for similar reasons (lack of control and center to the sound - based on how I play that is).
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: elec
Date: 2014-08-14 04:50
Yes I am in your position too. I am looking at the Master Series mouthpieces as well. I use the M13 Lyre mouthpiece with Vandoren traditional blue box strength #3 reeds. I will probably get the CL4 if im going for an upgrade, or if I am going for another mouthpiece for having 2 mouthpieces that i can swap depending on what I am playing i can go for a CL6. Having said that, i dont know if i should go with a CL5 or CL6.
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Author: elec
Date: 2014-08-14 05:01
Sorry for the double reply but, Paul, would u have any recommendations for me?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-14 07:14
I like the advice I hear from Ed Palanker on these questions: everyone is different and you need to find the solutions that work for you (to paraphrase). I try to frame my responses in a context so you can decide if what I experience lines up at all with YOUR experience. I would rather make the following suggestion: find a big store out there (or internet concern) from which you can at very least order one of each of the the Masters (with the understanding that you can return what you don't want for full refund or very small 'cleaning' or 'restocking fee') for trial. Start your play testing with the least open mouthpiece first (going the other way is much harder). Try to honestly evaluate which gives you the best control over all various articulations and the best focus of sound and the best control over pitch. The best one will be the mouthpiece that does most if not all of this effortlessly for you.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: elec
Date: 2014-08-14 08:58
But should i have two different mouthpieces or get a similar mouthpiece to what i have right now?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-14 14:19
My thought on the matter is that it is better to have one mouthpiece (or rather one particular facing; and some spares) that "does it all." Getting used to the response and tuning of one particular mouthpiece makes life so much simpler. You then go into rehearsals and performances knowing pretty much what to do regardless of the situation.
On the other hand a clarinetist like Carbonare no less will use different mouthpieces for different situations. But I could never get away with that lack of constancy.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: JuanMorales
Date: 2014-08-14 20:58
okay so i came from using the 5rv lyre love the mouthpiece thought it was a little bright though right now i use the cl4 and it is great best decision so far it has a very similar facing but a complete change to the tone and improved me completely suggest the cl4
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Author: Unkn0wnClarinet
Date: 2014-08-15 17:07
So I have thought of getting a Cl4 to replace my 5rv lyre, but I am not sure if I can use my vandoren optimum or I have to buy the new mlo ligature for the mp.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-15 17:49
oh
The Optimum will NOT work. The Masters mouthpieces have a narrower body at the top. You CAN use any soft bodied ligature (Rovners, BG, Vandoren Leather) but I really like the M/O. At first I just got one as a novelty (why not) but I am using it as my primary now.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-08-16 07:53
Paul Aviles wrote:
> oh
>
>
> The Optimum will NOT work. The Masters mouthpieces have a
> narrower body at the top. You CAN use any soft bodied ligature
> (Rovners, BG, Vandoren Leather) but I really like the M/O. At
> first I just got one as a novelty (why not) but I am using it
> as my primary now.
>
>
>
>
>
> ...............Paul Aviles
>
What do you like about the M/O over other ligs? If I was to invest in a Masters mp should I get the M/O with it? What metal?
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: JuanMorales
Date: 2014-08-16 08:31
well with most of the master mouthpieces including CL4 it comes with the m/o ligature which is a pretty nice ligature but i use a silverstine ligature instead but its a nice ligature and great because it comes with it
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-16 14:39
If you already have 'soft bodied' ligatures laying around, you can buy the Masters mouthpiece WITHOUT the ligature/cap (the cheaper option).
The metals are pretty much the same (just aesthetically different) so you can choose whichever one you want.
Why l like it doesn't really make sense to me. I have never had much luck before with ligatures that hold the reed at only the top and bottom of the bark (seems to encourage, or not help, the typical warping where the reed bulges off the mouthpiece at the center). I always have preferred the "Bonade style" format where you have two long contact points along either side of the bark. For some reason, right now, with the current weather conditions, this ligature is working better than the BGs that I had previously preferred with this mouthpiece.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: elec
Date: 2014-08-16 15:12
Right, thanks for the info, i'm planning on ordering the cl4 with m/o ligature. sad thing is i cant try some out before i buy them because of my location. perhaps if i am lucky i might be able to order a few at a local music store, which dont have them in stock at the moment and they have to get some, so i can try a few of them to find which one i like.
Post Edited (2014-08-16 15:14)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-17 10:17
Isn't there a retailer that can send mouthpieces to you on trial? Woodwind Brasswind does that for us out here. It is a bit more inconvenient to have to send things back (and possibly pay restocking fees), but it is better than nuthin'.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: elec
Date: 2014-08-17 10:40
Well I don't think is a place here that does that for us. First thing is the main music store (we pretty much only have one) don't have the Masters series in stock, and don't plan to get them unless a customer makes a specific order for them, in which case i don't know if they can order a few so I can try them out.
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-08-17 16:48
elec wrote:
> Well I don't think is a place here that does that for us. First
> thing is the main music store (we pretty much only have one)
> don't have the Masters series in stock, and don't plan to get
> them unless a customer makes a specific order for them, in
> which case i don't know if they can order a few so I can try
> them out.
Just as long as your in the United.States wwbw will send them to you. All you have to do is call them and ask for the mouthpiece trial program.
Does anyone play on a Vandoren CL5 or CL6? If so what do you think of it? What are the facings and tip opening of these mouthpieces? Are there any other mouthpieces at a similar price point (<$150) that I should check out instead?
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: Unkn0wnye7Kn0wn
Date: 2014-08-17 17:31
Well if you're into it, Pomarico makes some crystal mouthpieces that are about $100. Im not sure if any are like the B45 or 5RVL, but if someone finds out i'd be interested too.
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-08-17 17:48
Unkn0wnye7Kn0wn wrote:
> Well if you're into it, Pomarico makes some crystal mouthpieces
> that are about $100. Im not sure if any are like the B45 or
> 5RVL, but if someone finds out i'd be interested too.
Aren't those more for jazz playing? I probably should have been more clear about that, I need a mouthpiece for classical and solo performances.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-17 21:43
I'm going to make a blanket statement about crystal mouthpieces that Pomarico won't like. It is VERY difficult to 'work' crystal, therefore they lack constancy one to another. If you do actually find one that works great, the problem is that you may spend the rest of your life looking for another that works when (yes, I say when) that one breaks.
DON'T DO IT
Vandoren makes a multitude of different facings and models. Vandoren is the most consistent mass produced mouthpiece you can find. By that I mean, you'd have to try five or six of exactly the same facing to find one that DOESN'T work so well.
Now there are plenty of other makers even custom makers (refacers that take existing blanks, mostly from Zinner of Germany) that make reasonably priced mouthpieces, but you will find more differences from one to another of exactly the same facing. That does not make them worse, it just means you need to TRY THEM OUT.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: elec
Date: 2014-08-18 09:43
im not from the states.
Post Edited (2014-08-18 09:44)
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Author: Unkn0wnye7Kn0wn
Date: 2014-08-18 20:09
I looked up and can confirm that wwbw will ship to New Zealand. They have a neat trial period for their mouthpieces and if you dont like it you can pay a $4 restocking fee. If all else fails, you can try using amazon (keeping in mind that you cant try many mouthpieces).
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Author: elec
Date: 2014-08-19 09:40
Whoa thanks man! i definitely should have checked, i just assumed it wouldn't because amazon doesnt ship to nz. ill definitely check that out!
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Author: donald
Date: 2014-08-19 13:45
Hi there elec, it's a crap night in Auckland tonight eh? Also look into Muncy Winds- they have sent me stuff many times and used to send packages via USPS for me if i asked them specifically to do so (USPS is cheaper than UPS). There is also a great shop in Sydney- I think it is also called "woodwind/brasswind", but I'll have to check- they have heaps of stuff in stock so likely to have the Masters.
btw I had a Masters CL4 and sold it to Natalie Harris before she went to Denmark- not sure if she still has it or passed it on to someone else, it would have been the first (only?) Masters mouthpiece in NZ back in 2011.
dn
Ah- the Sax and woodwind... here is the link...
http://www.saxandwoodwind.com.au/
Post Edited (2014-08-19 13:48)
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Author: elec
Date: 2014-08-19 15:20
hiya donald, that's interesting might try look into that. i couldn't get access to www.wwbw.com for an unknown reason, the webpage connection timed out. so, i'll probably find another way of getting it, possibly what donald has mentioned. thanks
looked at saxandwoodwind.com.au they don't have the cl4 in stock, nor does muncy winds
edit: they do have one at muncy winds
Post Edited (2014-08-19 15:29)
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Author: donald
Date: 2014-08-19 16:19
I'd email saxandwoodwind- there's a good chance they have some stock that doesn't appear on their website (I know they have more barrels, for instance, than are listed) dn
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Author: Unkn0wnye7Kn0wn
Date: 2014-08-19 19:36
So my Vandoren CL4 came in yesterday and it is very much like the 5RV Lyre, except that it is a little more freeblowing. Also if you tune to 440, you should look into the 13 series that they have made for the masters mp. I, unfortunately got the non13 series but have found that it tunes well if you pull the mp out a little, get a 66mm barrel, pull the center out a little and maybe pull the bell a little to :P. The whole range of the clarinet is in tune except for throat A and Ab. Other than that, it is a wonderful mouthpiece to play on. I have not tried a b45 so i cannot compare it.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2014-08-19 19:54
I really disagree..I think crystal is just fine and can sound very nice provided you really know how to manage reeds. I think with the right set up crystal is very good and in some ways much more easy to play on ..I have a pomaricawhich is just fine.
Now the CL4 MASTERS is a decent facing but for me too sharp but remember you play for 30 years plus you embouchure gets used to things sitting in a certain manner. However, the cl5 did nothing for me and this was after a week of playing on it daily. Vandoren line for me is best in the m series but maybe once the bore of the cl4 gets adjusted it could be great.
David Dow
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2014-08-19 19:56
Here is a player on rubber with one orchestra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQQFX-4ps8
David Dow
Post Edited (2014-08-19 19:59)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2014-08-19 19:57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQQFX-4ps8&list=RDekQQFX-4ps8#t=147
another hard rubber mouthpiece...
David Dow
Post Edited (2014-08-19 20:00)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2014-08-19 19:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PaIXFSUHoE
no problems with crystal here is a player from the Aarthus orchestra..
David Dow
Post Edited (2014-08-19 19:59)
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Author: elec
Date: 2014-08-20 02:09
Either I order from wwbw.com (Which don't have the mouthpiece on their website o.o) or email saxandwoodwind or order up to 3 on muncy winds- which have a good trial system.
I am leaning towards muncy winds, but I might go with wwbw since so many others recommend it (if they have the product in stock)
Post Edited (2014-08-20 02:13)
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Author: Unkn0wnye7Kn0wn
Date: 2014-08-20 06:42
I have bought many things from Muncy Winds and highly recommend them if they have the mouthpiece you are looking for.
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Author: elec
Date: 2014-08-20 08:54
i dont understand their trial system. its and extra 5 dollars plus 5 dollars per mouthpiece up to 3, do i have for all 3 and get a refund or pay for 1 and try 3 out for extra 5 + 3x5 and choose one out of those? what if i dont like any of them?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-20 22:30
It sounds from your description that:
One mouthpiece would be a $10 non-refundable charge if you sent it back.
Two mouthpieces would be a $15 non-refundable charge if you sent them back.
Three mouthpieces would be $20 non-refundable charge if you sent them all back.
Presuming you keep one, you'd only incur a $15 non-refundable charge on the two you send back.
Make sure you use a mouthpiece patch on the top so as not to leave any marring from your teeth and a soft ligature (Rovner style) or some thin tape on the sides and top of the mouthpiece body so a metal ligature doesn't leave any marks.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-08-21 00:48
After calling them yesterday this is what I understand about the program. Muncy will send you up to three mouthpieces. You pay for the most expensive of the three mouthpieces plus shipping.You keep mouthpiece you like the most and then send the rest back. There will probably be a small restocking/sanitation fee per mouthpiece returned. If the mouthpiece you select is not the most expensive one they will refund the difference. If you don't like any of them you can send them all back for a full refund minus the restocking/sanitation fee.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: Joarkh
Date: 2014-08-21 23:34
It's the Oslo Philharmonic orchestra.
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-08-23 23:38
Probably not. I use a B45 now and the switch in facings and tip openings probably wouldn't agree with my sound nowadays. If I get anything it will be a CL5 or CL6. Probably gonna pick a 66mm Backun Studio Fatboy and/or MOBA barrel first though as I am poor high school student.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: willow129q
Date: 2015-02-22 21:12
To Unknown - I just wanted to say thank you so much for mentioning the series 13 here!! I did not know that existed!!!
I play on a CL4 and I love it but when I got it first I was at a clarinet conference, kinda bought it on a whim, did not notice how sharp it was.
So being consistently sharp makes it hard for me to recommend this mouthpiece to American players, even though the tone and ease of playing is GREAT.
My CL4 story:
I just LOOVE the tone but the intonation is a problem obviously, I put up with it for a while and then finally got a longer barrel from Muncy (67 I think). Love the barrel too and it's helping but not quite enough. The past two years due to my day job I hadn't been gigging as much so that was enough but I play in a dance band, have been playing more now, and the conditions can be tough with me going sharp and the fiddle going flat from all the humidity ACK! Just had a particularly rough gig with this. Really the problem is that I'm often playing where I really can't hear myself on stage very well but I'm mic'ed so the audience definitely can! So it's hard to have my intonation feel like a bit of a wild card. **sigh** Was just starting to get to the point where I felt like giving up on this set up cuz it's too much trouble...
BUT if the series 13 really does fix this!!! I'm so excited to try it out!!!
Thanks again!
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-22 21:48
As much as I love my M13s, I'd like to find something with similar hold, center, warmth and easy control but that would take a little more air.
Tom
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-22 22:49
Wow TomS,
That describes the CL4 to a tee. My wife refers to it (completely unsolicited by the way from her.....a professional singer) as my "ooh" mouthpiece ("ooh" as in moon) due to the sound it gets. She says it unlike any other mouthpiece I have. I'll take her word for it.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2015-02-22 23:13
TomS- I'm just curious: if the mouthpiece is doing everything you want it to, why would you feel the need to blow more air into it? Why can't you just get used to using a bit less air?
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-23 05:25
Just a little higher ceiling in dynamics ... maybe. More power, Scotty! The sound can be huge, but would like to go from stun to KILL.
I usually play an M30-lyre with VD blue box when I have to part eyebrows ... but I'd like everything in one MP, it's better that way.
I think I'll take Mr. Aviles suggestion and have a CL4 come to me. Gosh! I am spending to much lately on MPs ... bought 3 in the last month ...
My wife is flute/piano/nurse/librarian and I've not been able to corner her long enough to give me an opinion on MPs ... sounds like I need her input. She might tell me something I don't want to hear ...
The M13 is really almost perfect with a modified Legere Classic reed, for me.
Tom
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Author: kararae02
Date: 2015-02-23 08:09
Whoever was considering the Optimum ligature with a Masters Mouthpiece, DO NOT DO IT. I bought one with my masters, the tech that sold it to me did not realize they didn't go together and at the time neither did I. IT WAS AWFUL. My optimum bent beyond repair. The M/O is a good ligature. I jumped from an M13 Lyre to a Masters CL4 and was impressed at first but recently I've wanted something different. I cannot get it to play in tune. I'm always sharp but it sounds like that's a problem for most people with the CL4..I've tried a few D'Addario's and was much more impressed with them than Vandoren. But if you are set on a Masters, the CL4 is a good mouthpiece. I would recommend it, but I would also recommend trying out some other brands before buying.
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-02-23 09:01
Try the CL5- my personal favorite from that collection. I use the Reserve X0 full-time but enjoyed my brief time with the CL5.
As far as the ligatures, I found the pewter, black and silver ligatures had the best response, black actually feeling the best. Gold felt a little thuddy, but not too much. They all play pretty much the same, really. It takes a good ear to notice the differences.
The B40 Lyre may be a good option if you want to get away from the B45.
In general, the blue box and V12 reeds tend to work best with the Masters series.
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