 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2014-08-10 23:22
Quite a long while ago, the topic about the German(both bore and system) bass clarinet have been brought up on the Bboard. Recently I have bought a German bass clarinet(specially tuned to A442) made by Martin Foag, and it contrasted with a lot of the perceptions most people had before. In this 2-part review, I will revisit the topic of the German bass clarinet, with the first-account experience of myself.
First, the price(in USD). Despite being a hand-made instrument, this Foag instrument costs around 11K, equivalent to a Selmer Privilege 67(both excl. shipping costs), instead of the even-more-colossal 17K which most German basses cost.
Since the instrument's bore is smaller(20mm vs Boehm 23.5mm) but also longer, the key spacing is often wider. Also a chair or stool of a relatively taller may be required as the mouthiece is often at a taller height than those on Boehm basses due to the extra height. My Foag bass(specially tuned to A442) is 2 inches longer than a Boehm bass(as pictured with a Selmer 37 owned by my teacher Michael Campbell, also in photo 1).
Another feature to note is the basset keywork configuration which I called 'The Etna'(photo 2). This configuration has all 4 Eb,D,C#,C keys at the right thumb arranged in a clockwise fashion. However, lower 2 keys(D,C#) could be difficult to reach due its lower positioning.
Despite it is true that the German bass is more resistant, it does not consume my breath as quick as Boehm basses do. Thus I don't need to to breath in that often, and making big long notes more effortless, whilst on Yamahas and Selmers I had to breathe more frequently everytime after a few crotchets.
Tone- The Foag German bass has a clearer more crystal ring than the thick, fat sound of the Boehm bass, thus have a more clarinet-like tone while retaining the dark mellow quality of a bass clarinet. It was this character of the sound which steered me in favor towards the German bass. IMHO it sounds more natural in most reperatoire, especially Mahler, Wagner and R. Strauss. Also it blends better with other woodwinds while still retains its own distinct quality, thus making it a great instrument for chamber music.
Josh
Post Edited (2017-05-05 02:56)
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2014-08-10 23:27
Volume and resonance- While some say German basses cannot match the volume and resonance of Boehm basses, I found such a gap to be much smaller. It is slightly lower in volume than the Selmer, but not enough to make a obvious difference. And it matches the volume of a Buffet Prestige. For resonance I consider it even more resonant than the Buffet Prestige and equivalent to the Selmer.
Consistency- Apart from the Lowest C and C# as well as the middle B is exceptionally resistant, I have almost no trouble(with prior learning the Oehler system myself) playing from Low D2 to High E5. This also contrasts with a previous comment that German basses are inferior at higher registers.
Mouthpiece setup- I use a Playnick Aida German bass mouthpiece which surprisingly takes Vandoren alto reeds even better than German bass reeds. I use a Rovner Versa Ligature for tenor sax on this instrument, and it is surprisingly far louder and more resonant than the Dark ligature made by the same brand which usually come along with German basses.
For agility, I have found pros and cons of the German Oehler System, but I am not used to it enough to give accurate comments, as I only had this instrument for 2 weeks( and I'm still a student being taught with the Boehm system!)
I am overall very pleased with this Foag instrument, for its high performance and high handmade quality at such a good price. And I strongly believe that not just the Foag bass(though paticularly due to its price), but also any other German bass can definitely compete side by side with an Boehm bass!
Josh
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Author: ErezK
Date: 2014-08-11 01:25
Thanks for the in-depth review!
I recently had a chance to play on a Seggelke bass clarinet. That model had Boehm key system on a german style bore and it required a german mouthpiece.
That instrument was very impressive. If didn't have a Boehm instrument to compare it to, but I did not feel it lacked anything in the volume department. Going from A to B over the break was very smooth and it felt very even through-out. I wouldn't mind owning one - not at all - but it is an expensive instrument (almost 3x the price of the above mentioned Foag).
Joshua - how did you order your instrument from Mr Foag? did you use a dealer or visit his shop in person?
Post Edited (2014-08-11 01:32)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-11 01:31
Foag is not that far from Neustadt. Is this another former Wurlitzer technician?
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-08-11 18:09
My experience with a (1950s-vintage?) F. Arthur Uebel German-system bass clarinet over the past few years has been right in line with Joshua's first post above. I've extended the range to low C so the instrument is indeed very tall and skinny as he has described it, and I've also arranged the thumb keys in a "4-square" pattern but going counter-clockwise. I have no trouble reaching any of the keys nor does the instrument have any particularly resistant notes; it's a joy to play in every way and I try to use whatever excuse I can to perform on it. I'd note that mine has double manual register keys (not an automatic system) but this causes no hardship because the lower vent is useful in faster passages all the way up to the top clarion C; the upper vent is really only needed for slightly improved sound and intonation from clarion G and up on longer notes, and for playing in the altissimo.
It has taken me a long term to develop mouthpieces that sound and feel comfortable; my current primary and backup mouthpieces are both German-system-specific in overall dimensions but with the facings extensively modified to allow me to use narrowed French-system alto clarinet or alto sax reeds of which I have many in stock.
I've found the German-system instrument to be especially useful in clarinet quartets or choirs where it blends better with the upper clarinets than the Boehm-system bass.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2014-08-12 22:43
Erez: Martin Foag does not have any dealers, like most other German makers. I directly contacted him by email. I am aware of the Schwenk und Seggelke horn too. But get over it, anything 20000EUR is either for top pros or mafia kings!
Paul: I never inquired such a question, though it could possible that Martin Foag is a former Wurlitzer technician. Or maybe a former technician of Wolfgang Dietz, since Foag's designs and variety bear a few notable reassemblances to Dietz's designs, such as complementary wooden necks for basset horns, as well as offering High and Low G clarinets. They are also the only 2 makers who explore the idea to merge French mouthpieces to German clarinets and Vice Versa by using tapered barrels.
Josh
Post Edited (2014-08-12 22:46)
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2014-08-12 23:20
David: My instrument might be taller than yours, since the entire body has been specially tuned to A442, and can be easily adjusted to A440, as well as squeezing back to A443 by not pulling the slide at all(though the mouthpiece would be too high). I guess the reason for those 3 resistant notes is because I am not skillfully competent enough, since I had the same problem on my old plastic Yamaha bass. Other than that my Foag bass sound amazingly consistent from Low D2 up to high E5. IMO the G4 up to E5 has been superb and even more defined than the Selmer did.
Mine is a fully automatic triple register system, which surprisingly cost the same with the semi-automatic system made by the same maker. For the basset keys on my Foag horn they are a little bit too far from the right index finger touchpiece, causing my thumb to stretch. So I've decided getting a replacement part of that has a half-key attaching to the bottom of the right index finger touchpiece, so I could move down my index finger to let my thumb reach closer to the basset keys. I'll be getting it from Foag himself.
My Aida MP was supposed to a German bass MP, but it surprisingly worked with French alto reeds without any modification or narrowing! And on a side note, it had a similar tip opening with a B40 alto MP!
And yes, my Foag horn blends really well with higher clarinets, French and German. It particularly blends well with Vintage R13s as well as Festivals(which is the instrument I hope to get). It also compromises better with bassoons, having a more 'friendly' tone while standing out as an unique instrument of its own right.
Josh
Post Edited (2017-05-05 02:58)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-13 02:39
Yes, blend !!! The German bass is a much more accepted German horn throughout the world (you see more of them that is).
Of course I think the Oehler sopranos also are a better blending horn with the other woodwinds for much the same reason, its even, upper partial friendly timbre.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2014-08-13 03:26
Yes Paul, the German sopranos blends well while retains its distinct quality. However, it would be harder to find an Oehler teacher around Sydney(where I'll be going to study music soon). So I'd stick to the next closest thing- The Buffet Festival(which is also a popular horn in that city).
Another point that cannot be overlooked is that my Foag horn costs around 11K USD, which is around same price as the Buffet and Selmer counterparts and also only half the price as the Wurlitzer bass!
And yes, I can't resist to play this horn every other day!
Josh
Post Edited (2014-08-18 22:11)
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Author: ErezK
Date: 2014-08-13 12:11
Joshua, did you mention some photos of the Froag next to a Selmer?
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2014-08-14 22:28
Erez here is comparison photo of the Foag bass(left) with a Selmer 37 bass(right), note that both instruments tune at A442, but my Foag horn is 2 inches taller than its French counterpart. The person in the photo is my teacher and former HK Phil Bass clarinettist Michael Campbell.
http://instagram.com/p/rsLm3-At-P/
Josh
Post Edited (2014-08-14 23:36)
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