 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2014-08-09 02:10
I started to practise double tongue a month ago, because I was (am) not satisfied with the speed of my single tongue. I figured out the best syllable what is comfortable and produces a clear second attack. However, I can't proceed further because I found out that when I do the 'kee' syllable, some air almost always escapes from my mouth.Nothing seems to help to stop this. I have already tried changing things like tension of lips, angle of mouthpiece, reed strength, amount of mouthpiece in the mouth. It's really not much, but I don't want to pick up any bad habit. I always practise slowly and methodically. I would really appreciate suggestions on this. Thank you!
Mark
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-08-09 02:36
No expert here - but for what it's worth I found the syllables DUH GUH rather easier to execute initially - you can always add others later to get sharper response.
However it takes a long long time to aquire a good double tongue. You just have to keep at it for months and accept gradual improvements.
I'm not sure slow practice is really appropriate for double tongue as the objective is faster tongue and the muscular requirements between slow and fast seem quite different to me.
Start at the speed that seems to work best for you and when that is reliable you can gradually gear up and down.
After 6/12 months you realise it is actually working quite well.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-09 05:51
I don't want to be the guy who contradicts the above advice on speed of practice, so I will let Michael Rusinek do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRgKs5t86A
My only thought about the air leak is that it may be that you allow your jaw to become more open when executing the articulation using that point of your tongue further back upon the roof of your mouth.
Just follow Mike's advice!
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2014-08-09 10:49
Thank you for your advice and for the link. Rusinek is a great player, and it worths to listen to.
Regarding air leak, my jaw is stable. I always check this in a mirror and with my hand when I play an open G.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-09 14:53
I'm stumped on the leak, but honestly there should be NO CONNECTION between your tongue and you lips........PERIOD!!!!!
.........Paul Aviles
P.S. Well there is one possibility that you have an issue with your upper palate that is only obvious when you stop the air further back, but that really should also happen whenever you stop a note with the tip of your tongue too.
If you just pressurize your mouth (no clarinet!), do you feel/hear any leak this way?
Post Edited (2014-08-09 14:57)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2014-08-09 22:57
PAUL AVILES wrote:
>> I don't want to be the guy who contradicts the above advice on speed of practice, so I will let Michael Rusinek do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRgKs5t86A
>>
...and of course the demonstration is very convincing.
However, Norman Smale wrote:
>> ...the muscular requirements between slow and fast seem quite different to me. >>
...so, it might be worth considering that.
Indeed, though practising things slowly has obvious benefits, I've learnt a lot by thinking that practising smaller bits fast, and lengthening them – still fast – may have its advantages. That's contrary to the 'received' wisdom.
And, we are all different, particularly in the configuration and abilities of our tongues.
Norman Smale may well have a point, for some people.
So when PAUL AVILES says,
>> Just follow Mike's advice! >>
...I want to say: yes, perhaps; but ALLOW IN Norman Smale's observation, if it helps.
Tony
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2014-08-09 22:59
My lips don't move when I play, tonguing or not. When I pressurize my mouth, there are no leaks either. I tried to blow as relaxed as possible, with the current best reed and after a proper warm up. The problem remains. Small amount of air always escapes when I do the 'kee' syllable.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-10 01:19
From where is the air escaping?
And let me apologize to Norman. That did sound like I was writing him off. It's just that I have had more luck of late with the wisdom of successful peers that have used the method of very slow, very accurate practice. When Mr. Rusinek outlines what he did over painstaking months of practice it just resonated with what just seems to work. All I know is what the successful players (that I know) do that works vs. what others that are not so successful are doing to get where THEY are.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-10 03:26
Well, see, to me that is a lip issue. If you were getting that leaking all the time, it would simply be a matter of advising you to more actively engage your cheek muscles: the area about a half an inch out from the sides of your mouth should be firm, drawing the 'corners' of your mouth IN towards the mouthpiece/reed. The final piece of embouchure that ensures a nice seal and a firm 'platform' for the reed/mouthpiece is the use of the upper lip muscles exerting some energy back, and downward.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2014-08-10 04:16
I think sonicbang said the leaks occur just during the "kee" part of the double tongue, so in addition to what Paul A. suggested, you might try moving the "kee" a bit forward, using less movement of the tongue. I had a similar problem with too large a movement in the back of the tongue that caused control issues. Thinking of moving the double tonguing process forward and using less tongue movement helped.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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