 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Majestas
Date: 2014-07-31 05:38
I am the first clarinet in my school's wind ensemble. The next few people behind me have wooden clarinets. My teacher hasn't said it specifically to me, but I think she kind of wants me to have a wooden clarinet. I cannot really afford a wooden clarinet. I got a M30D mouthpiece with Vandoen v12 (strength 3.5) to improve my tone. My teacher recommends a B45 mouthpiece, but I didn't find it helped me as much. Anyway, here is my questions:
1) Is there anything else I can do to improve my tone without it being overly expensive?
2) I am looking into wooden clarinets and the most inexpensive one I can find is the Jupiter 737NTO Intermediate Bb Clarinet. Is it any good?
Side note: The clarinet I do have, I have had for 7 years. I have only had 3 pads changed since I got it and some of the pads seem to be sort of fraying. Should I get maintenance on it?
Post Edited (2014-07-31 05:43)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-07-31 05:55
Hi. Great that you've advanced so far.
Others can address your mouthpieces and reeds. And you'll find many opinions about various clarinets. But I just want you to get firmly fixed in your head the following- that FINE clarinets, some of the best available, can be made from hard rubber. Plastic, not so much. And... TERRIBLE clarinets can be made from wood- and frequently are. So evaluate every instrument on its own merits, and don't be influenced by your own or even a teacher's "grenadilla snobbery".
I know nothing about the Jupiter. But I do know that for that price range you can buy a Ridenour Lyrique that is of professional symphony player level. It's not wood, though. That doesn't bother the folks who play it.
Oh, and I didn't see where you told us what clarinet you're playing now.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-07-31 05:58)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-31 07:08
Hi, another 1st chair high school player here. Wooden barrels can make the tone of an otherwise plastic clarinet much more wood-y - maybe not to the extent of a fully wood clarinet, but it'll be noticeably different. Clark Fobes barrels and Backun barrels are among the most popular (I personally play a Fobes cocobolo barrel.) At a music camp I went to a couple of weeks ago, we put one of the Fobes barrels on someone's plastic clarinet as a demonstration, and everyone immediately went "ooh" when they heard the better tone.
And yes, a full repadding on your clarinet will help immensely, especially if pads are beginning to fray.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-31 07:44
Try some different ligatures too. There are people who will tell you that they make no difference, but from personal experience I know they do. I have a Vandoren Optimum ligature coming in the mail; I tried my teacher's Optimm recently and I liked it much better than my previous ligature. A barrel is probably a better investment, though, if you're looking for a dramatically better sound.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2014-07-31 07:56
Have you tried playing any of your band mate's wooden clarinets? Did it make a big difference? Are you near any music stores where you can try out wooden clarinets and compare them to what you have?
Do a reality check; determine whether it's your plastic clarinet that is letting you down. Maybe it's your mouthpiece and/or reeds - both have a really big
effect on your sound.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-07-31 15:34
90% of your sound is determined by using your air correctly: pushing from your core, focusing your air column (tongue in 'natural' position or as if you are saying "EEEEE") and tonguing tip of tongue to tip of reed. I'm fond of saying that the inside of your mouth should be "pressurized" like an inner tube. That's all free!
Of course a really good clarinet makes for an easier experience because it should play reasonably in tune with itself (that is, note to note). Of course this takes hours of fine craftsmanship to achieve and this equates to cost.
I have never played a Jupiter; don't really know anything about them; but friends who have had Jupiter flutes would never own one again.......I'd avoid it.
I'd second the Ridenour suggestions or find a decent price on a used (older) Buffet R13. It's NOT THE WOOD - it's how it's made and finished that makes an instrument worth more than another.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-07-31 16:07
+1 on barrel. Get backun cocobolo studio barrel from "that auction site".. it's $25+$16ship. This is probably the least expensive option for your clarinet.
Jupiters are fine; no experience with wooden but the plastic ones are actually good as far as student instruments go.
Check out Backun Antigua and Leblanc Bliss at Kessler http://www.kesslermusic.com/html/clarinet/clarinets.htm. They used to give MoBa barrel with Bliss.. not sure if they do any more. He also sells his own wooden "Kessler Custom Artist". Many Kessler custom products are designed by Backun.. and the bell and barrel on this one looks like Backun product.
And you can try different non-wooden one.. Ridenour hard rubber or Backun Alpha
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-07-31 16:30
Consider a Boosey and Hawkes clarinet such as the emperor or the imperial. There professional models can sell used for less that $200 if you know where to look. A normandy would also be a good inexpensive instrument.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-07-31 18:24
The biggest bang for your buck at this point would be to get the pads fixed.
After 7 years, you'd be shocked at the improvement after a full repad.
If money's an issue, I'd go in the following order:
1. maintenance - fix the pads, key cork problems, etc.
2. mouthpiece - try several in a music store: M13, M13-Lyre, M15, Fobes Nova
3. A Buffet E-12F is an excellent choice of a wooden instrument if on a budget.
Good luck, keep working hard! Not many get to sit 1st, keep it up!
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-07-31 18:58
Majestas wrote:
>
> 1) Is there anything else I can do to improve my tone without
> it being overly expensive?
>
Well, it depends on what it is about your tone that you want to improve. So much of the tone quality comes from the player that "improvement" beyond a certain point becomes a subjective thing. As Paul suggested, you can control a good deal of what determines your tone quality - the shape inside your mouth, the way you use your tongue to separate (articulate) notes, the amount of lip you use to cover your bottom teeth, the ways you use breath support. The trouble is there's no one way to do any of these things. What you do with breath, with embouchure, with oral shape depends on what you want to sound like in any given situation. A good clarinet with a good mouthpiece and carefully chosen reeds (not just the first one you grabbed out of the box) will make controlling the sound easier, but will not make you sound like a virtuoso by themselves. IMO, replacement barrels and bells are things that someone should experiment with who already can produce a high level sound and wants to see what subtle difference a bell or a barrel might make. Ligatures can have a muffling effect on the sound, so if you feel that your sound is dull, a ligature may make a difference, but you won't know without trying them. I guess you'd need to decide more specifically what not "overly expensive" means to you. I certainly have a current preference for a specific ligature (a Rovner Light), but that's only in combination with the rest of my set up. I own a dozen different ligatures and have tried more. I've never played on one that really ruined my sound.
One important point that you may be missing is that your teacher has placed you at the top of the section, wooden clarinet or not. She placed you above those other wooden clarinets presumably because you are the best player in the clarinet section. Her wish for everyone to have a "wooden" clarinet is, hopefully, mis-stated and what she really wants is for everyone to have a "good" instrument. IMO, you should begin to look for ways to build the needed funds to buy a _good_ clarinet instead of looking for the cheapest _wood_ clarinet you can find.
I'm assuming from your post that you aren't studying with a private clarinet teacher. If you are, the teacher should have a good deal to say about all of this.
> 2) I am looking into wooden clarinets and the most inexpensive
> one I can find is the
> Jupiter
> 737NTO Intermediate Bb Clarinet. Is it any good?
First, consider what has been said about wood - that by itself it doesn't make a high quality instrument. Well-regulated, your current instrument could easily be a match for many inexpensive wood clarinets. Consider that back in the 1960s (only 50 years ago) when I began to play, all the entry-level student clarinets were made of wood - plastic clarinets were uncommon if they had even been invented at that point in history.
Years ago my answer about any Jupiter instrument would have been - stay away. Tuning was awful across their entire line. Over the past 10-15 years, I've heard many brass players praise their trumpets and low brass instruments as excellent school-level instruments, much improved over the earlier ones. I don't hear similar things about their woodwinds, but then I don't hear much about their woodwinds at all. There are other relatively inexpensive (compared to the big French names) clarinets on the market that do get high praise from lots of people - the Ridenour line being one. Stick with reputations. Don't buy just because it's wood and it's low-priced.
>
>
> Side note: The clarinet I do have, I have had for 7 years. I
> have only had 3 pads changed since I got it and some of the
> pads seem to be sort of fraying. Should I get maintenance on
> it?
>
Meanwhile, I don't think having your present instrument brought up to good condition is a bad idea at all - replace worn pads, adjust spring tensions *as needed* for best seal and comfort, clean the rods or screws anyplace a key is sluggish to make sure the key action is the best it can be, replace any wobbly corks, etc. I personally would stay away from a packaged "overhaul" offer. You probably don't need every cork or every pad replaced, and an "overhaul" generally doesn't tell you what specifically will be done. Look for a repair technician who will tell you what he or she thinks the clarinet needs and will estimate a price for those items. The estimate will be based on materials and shop time needed to do the actual work that's necessary and no more. If something unexpected comes up, a phone call is always possible to get your permission to do work beyond the original estimate.
Karl
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-07-31 19:36
Karl is absolutely right a few tiny leaks in upper joint would do 10 fold more bad to your tone then any MPC/barrel/reed/ligature can undo. Do you have issues with long pipe/after the break tones sounding thin/weak?
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-08-01 02:08
I myself was in just your situation back in December. I second the idea of looking into barrels. Backun and Fobes have some great choices. Check eBay for great prices on stuff. I saw a Buffet E13 sell for $100 the other day. You should also experiment with different reeds until you find the ones you like. I don't know what you budget is like but here are some ideas for what you could do:
*Backun Ringless Barrel 66mm Cocobolo ($25 on ebay)
*box of D'addario Reserve Classic reeds (Liked by lots of people on this forum, $30)
*Vandoren Optimum Ligature $90
*New Vandoren/ Rico Mouthpiece $50-$120
*Backun Fatboy Barrel/ Fobes Cocobolo Barrel (might improve tone, and give you a fuller sound) = $190ish
*Selmer Signet (decent wood clarinet, that goes for about $250, would definitely swap the barrel)+Backun Ringless Barrel 66mm in cocobolo ($25 on ebay)+box of D'addario Reserve Classic Reeds($30)= $300ish
*Buffet E11 (Better wood clarinet, I have one and I love it)=$500
*Leblanc Bliss (Also a nice wood clarinet)= $350-$700
*Backun Protege (REALLY nice clarinet on par with Buffet R13s): $700-$1600
*Yamaha 650 (Pro horn like by many, on par with Buffet R13) : $1300-$2000
*Buffet R13 (Most popular professional clarinet, used by many pro clarinetists, only buy if you want to major in music or are really committed): $1000 (used) - $3500 (new)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-08-01 03:08
A really well designed clarinet made out of hard rubber or some plastics sound as least as good as wood and you will have fewer problems, IMHO. Some research suggests that hard rubber may actually have a better sound that Blackwood. This is, of course, highly subjective and you will get a lot of lively discussion. So, I'd say, don't be afraid of a non-wood instrument such as the Backun Alpha or the Ridenour Lyrique instruments.
I suspect many of the less expensive wooden instruments use really poor material, so you might find plastic or hard rubber a better performer in a given price range.
What matters to your sound is (in this order): you, reed, mouthpiece acoustics, instrument acoustics. The instrument material has less to do with the "sound" but the acoustical design can be very important in the matter of tuning and response.
A seasoned professional can take just about any setup and make it sound pretty good, but an old, not well trained and rusty guy like me needs all the help he can get! Therefore, I am in constant search for items that make for better results with less work ...
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2014-08-01 03:14
Give the Ridenour Lyrique and Libertas serious consideration. Every bit as good as entry level "pro" wooden horns, and cost far less. Entry point isd between $1000-1600. Far lower pfice than a woody, and it will remain dimensionally stable,abnd NEVER crack. I love my Lyrique, and I would love to try a Libertas, if I get a chance. It's supposed to be even a better instrument. Call Tom Ridenour (you can actually call the designer and he is happy to speak with prospective customers!). Plus, he has affordable financing plans, if money is still an issue.
Jeff.
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-08-01 03:25
Darn forgot to list the Ridenour stuff on the list. Have heard good things about them but never heard or played one myself.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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