 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-07-14 00:54
Has anyone taken the bore measurements of their rubber Libertas clarinet?
A local machinist measured the bore of the top joint (at the upper end where it links with the barrel) of my Libertas and said the diameter of the bore there was 0.582 inches or 14.78 mm. That sounded a bit wide to me. Did he do the measurement correctly?
Can anyone confirm or correct this measurement?
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-07-14 01:53
That's a quite typical measurement of a modern Boehm system clarinet.
The bore is normally a bit smaller at the lower end of top joint e.g. 14.5 - 14.7 mm.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-14 02:12
Bore measurements are usually taken from the middle tenon where the bore is at its narrowest.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-07-14 02:34
Thanks, Norman, for your validation that this is at least a plausible bore measurement for the bore at the upper end of the top joint where it engages the bore of the barrel.
The context for my wanting to measure the bore at the barrel end of the top joint (rather than the usual mid-point) was that I was asked via e-mail by a barrel maker if I happened to know the bore diameter of the Libertas at that point. We were discussing the possible choices in timber that barrels made of gaboon ebony, Arizona ironwood, and other materials might make in the already robust and attractive tone characteristic of this model clarinet.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-07-14 04:27
I would be interested to know how and why different barrel materials affect timbre, and how this effect is determined. thanks.
richard smith
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-07-14 05:04
It is my understanding that there is little or no reverse taper in the upper joint of the Libertas ... that's just something I heard from a good source. The design of this instrument seems to be unique in many ways ...
Tom
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-07-14 06:17
I'm delighted with the sound of the Libertas just as it is, with its matching rubber barrel.
Still, like many other clarinetists, I'm always curious about how changing the material and taper of a barrel or bell will change the sound of ANY clarinet--from Buffet to Yamaha, Rossi to Backun, Selmer to Schille, etc.
Post Edited (2014-07-14 07:37)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-07-14 12:52
Seabreeze; It would be a hell of a job drilling Arizona ironwood! Does it exist? I thought it was from Sonora. Mind you, the Sonoran desert runs into Arizona. Nature has a way of not caring about borders and fences on them.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-07-14 19:33
Dear Cyclo again: Thanks for this wood database, which could prove really useful. I'm under the impression that "softish" material near the top of the clarinet makes for a mellower, softer tone. The Zinner blanks they use for American and German mouthpieces, for example, use softer rubber than Vandoren does and have a softer, warmer sound. Backun and Segal seem to like cocobolo for their barrels, which is also softer than African blackwood.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-07-14 19:42
I'm not suggesting that anyone use ironwood for their clarinet. Still less do I recommend taking a peice of ironwood into one's garage and dangerously hacking away at it. Just passing on the fact that a skilled barrel maker presumably with the knowledge to protect himself against toxic substances released while working ironwood is already making ironwood barrels (at an affordable price) for clarinets, and he suggested I try one.
The same maker offers Honduran rosewood, mopani, gaboon ebony and several other woods, some of which I will also try.
Ironwood objects (or at least they are marketed as ironwood) abound in gift shops from San Antonio on westward to the ocean. The shops in San Antonio's El Mercado are filled with them.
Titanium metal is even harder to work than ironwood, but Hanson in England offers a titanium clarinet in their catalog, and one or two flute makers have made titanium flutes. I suppose where there's a will there's a way.
The same site you referenced points out that the ironwood plant (tree) is not on any endangered species list, so we may infer that its use in small-scale manufacturing is probably environmentally sustainable.
Many woods contain toxic substances that pose some danger to the craftsperson working with them. Woodworkers are generally aware of these serious health risks and take suitable precautions to avoid them.
I may decide the timbre variations offered by mopani, gaboon ebony, and "Arizona" ironwood are not really more interesting or useful than the the basic timbre produced by the original rubber barrel. I also might prefer the mopani to the ironwood.
Just reporting, not promoting or selling.
Post Edited (2014-07-14 19:52)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-07-14 19:51
Dear Seabreeze: Let us know what you think of these ironwood barrels. We make clarinets out of mopani (so do otther builders): nice to work with and a density pretty close to what is usually called ebony. The fibers are very regular and this seems to produce very smooth vibrations.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-07-14 20:02
I read somewhere Clark Fobes' comment on acoustic properties of material (in his case it was plastic vs ebonite MPC blanks). And he thinks that most of difference is attributed to surface finish, not material per se.
Personally if you are going for dark sound hard beat East Indian Rosewood, but in limited experience can't really say if the darkness was solely attributed to material or rough hand finish. It definitely has issues with stability.
I suppose alot of unstable woods can be used if they sealed with modern technology such as vacuum resin infusion.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-07-14 22:30
Cyclo: What about boxwood? Some people say that for clarinets, it is incomparable. It warps like hell, though. In that case, it must be lined. There's plenty of it France, and of good quality. There's very little we haven't tried (wild olive wood, amourette..all sorts of things). Next in line: boxwood and maybe delerin; Lorée has made oboes out of it.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2014-07-14 22:47
Maybe I'm missing something, but what would be the point of having a boxwood instrument, then lining it with another material?
B.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-07-14 22:54
bmc: giving it stability. German bassoons are made of maple and lined with rubber. The wood still vibrates in a unique way and has its particular timbre. Clark Fobes lines his cocobolo barrels with rubber.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2014-07-15 00:05
Well, I won't re-open that can of worms, but if sound characteristics are determined by surface finish, that doesn't wash.
(Never been convinced that body vibrations have any affect on what an audience hears, though that can of worms gets re-opened from time to time, too.)
B.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2014-07-15 13:06
My boxwood clarinet was vacuum impregnated with tung oil. It hasn't warped yet.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-07-15 13:31
Dibbs: Thanks for the tip! Is your boxwood clarinet a period or modern instrument. What make? I have a bassoonist-maker that uses tung oil; hard to find here in France. What is so special about it? Is it it commonly used as bore oil?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-07-15 16:08
here is info on tung oil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil.
do not believe that it does not darken with age. It does, especially if exposed to sunlight! I have several pieces of white pine furniture which we finished ~18 years ago. They are considerably darker, esp on the side which was exposed to light more.
If you have trouble finding tung oil locally Amazon is your friend. But IMHO something like cured cactus juice could be a better choice.
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