 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: duder
Date: 2014-06-19 07:55
Hey Just contemplating a new clarinet. I have intermediate ability and am interested in the Lyrique Clarinets, the libertas in particular.
I have read a bit about some issues namely
1.flimsy keys and awkward ergonomic layout (subjective)
2.The standard mouthpiece is bettered by some other brands
3. I am almost comfortable with the wood vs rubber argument
4. Some techs refuse to work on them
5. Ergonomic vs standard register key which is best
6. Hard rubber can become soft at higher temps (does this mean 44 degree celcius days we often get in Australia? Or is this an anti rubber myth)
These are areas of discussion I have seen in all that I have read of the net.
I had a bH 1010 and always found it hard to play the bell b in particular, I think it is unanimous that Lyriques sound nice and are easy to play.
Could some owners please chime in and let me know of their experiences
Thanks
Nick
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-06-19 08:48
I love my Lyrique. It fits my hands great. I have played out doors in 104° (40°c) and had no problem at all. The tone and tuning are great. The people I have played with these last few months are always amazed when they find out that I am playing a hard rubber clarinet. I have the ergonomic register key. It did take a bit of getting used to but I like it.
AAAClarinet
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Author: duder
Date: 2014-06-19 09:26
Hi AAA
Which model do you have?
Thanks for your reply
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-06-19 09:55
I second what AAAClarinet has said. I have the RCP-576BC (Bb) & the RCP-570C (C) and I'm entirely pleased with them. The mechanism is not flimsy though there are several details of the key work that I don't like but I've adapted.
I have used both the Bb & the C outdoors in your typical Australian summer heat wave (around 40 deg C) with no ill effects. Of course I haven't left then in a motor vehicle where any instrument is going to be damaged (60 deg C ) Both my Lyriques don't show any discolouration but then again I haven't actually left them out in the sun for any length of time.
However, it's interesting to note that several of my Vandoren mouthpieces which are also made of Ebonite (hard rubber) have started to turn greenish. I've only had them for about 4 years.
The 'fishtail' register key doesn't 'light my fire'. In fact I don't really see the point in it as I've always positioned my thumb between 1 & 2 o-clock. Is there any other correct position ?
Here in the region where I live there are several technicians who will gladly work on any woodwind & brass instrument within reason. None of these locals are Clarinet specialists however. Any instrument repairer who snubs his nose up at my Lyriques will be 'black listed' by me and I'll also spread the word around about them.
BJV
"The Clarinet is not a horn"
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Author: duder
Date: 2014-06-19 10:02
Hey
Where in Oz are you. I am in Albury NSW. So given I am more hack than Virtuoso, do I bother with the Libertas or do i just get the 576 and save the money?
Thanks again
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-06-19 10:35
Hi Duder, I live in the Hunter Valley between Newcastle and Maitland.
Can't give you any advice concerning the Libertas.
BJV
"The Kazoo is not a horn
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Author: duder
Date: 2014-06-19 13:14
Hi Barry
Thanks for your advice
You live in a beautiful part of the world incidentally.
So I take it that you are happy with your 576? Are there model variants within that model? If so did you get a particular version of the 576?
Nick
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Author: dibble
Date: 2014-06-19 14:19
I have a Lyrique 576 bc. I bought it because I read so many rave reviews on this bboard about it being the best thing since sliced bread. The intonation has its quirks like all clarinets do. The response is excellent. The evenness of timbre is great. I MUCH prefer the tone of ANY of my wooden horns though. This is why I rarely play it.
If you like the tone of hard rubber, more power to you.
My advise would be, try horns for yourself. Some people like the tone of hard rubber and some do not. They are quite different.
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-06-19 15:13
If you find yourself in temperatures that will destabilize hard rubber you have far bigger problems than your clarinet playing. I once left a hard rubber clarinet, this isnt something you want to do with any clarinet....was a mistake on my part, in a parked car in the middle of the Texas summer during the day. Outside it was around 100? Maybe 105? So inside the car the temperature was probably 130-140 degree and possibly as high as 150! The inside temps are based on a few google searches. The instrument was fine. Obviously that's not something you want to do but hard rubber does not destabilize.......short of you putting it in the microwave or a solar flare hitting the planet you won't have issues with stability.
Ted R.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-06-19 15:57
Hi again Duder.
Yes , I"m entirely satisfied with the full bodied sound quality of the Lyriques and also of their intonation. As far as I know , there is only one type of Lyrique RCP-576BC.
BJV
"The Clarinet is not a horn"
(Is this an echo ?
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-06-19 16:08
Hi Ted. Yes I can imagine that the body of an Ebonite Clarinet would survive such extreme ambient temperatures but I can also imagine what would happen to the glue that keeps the pads and corks in place :(
BJV
"The Didgeridoo is not a horn
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-06-19 16:15
Hello Mr. Vincent! Your absolutely correct regarding the glue on corks and pads.
It was a mistake.....not a good idea! I'm not suggesting it. Tom in fact berated me, I knew it was a mistake anyways, for leaving it in the car and told me he needed to check the instrument to make sure it was still sealing. Fortunately in this case we were lucky and their were not any issues.
You shouldn't leave a clarinet, any clarinet, in 130+ degree temps.....I was just making a point that the body is stable.
Ted R.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
Post Edited (2014-06-19 16:54)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-06-19 17:13
I have seen an R13 Greenline that was not so lucky with heat. Of course it served in Iraq where it can easily be 130 degrees fahrenheit in the shade. I suppose the clarinet was left on top of a metal chair (or other similar surface) all put together. The heat transferred up the thumbrest and actually melted the clarinet into a soft curve.
Don't leave your synthetic horn all put togehter, in direct sunlight, on a metal chair, in the middle of Iraq :-)
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-06-19 17:31
I believe that......the greenline is a very different material than hard rubber though.
Either way, no matter what material your clarinet is made from if your leave it in crazy extreme temperatures like that I don't think one should be surprised if the thing ends up ruined or in some state of disrepair. Based on customer feedback and personal experience though, I don't believe hard rubber (some hard rubber formulas have "fillers" in them...usually various plastics etc., so that could make a difference..I can't speak to how those act in high heat) will have problems in any temperatures you can expose it to short of intentionally applying heat. The body of the clarinet anyways, Mr. Vincent is 100% correct when he said it can melt glue causing problems with pads and corks.
Ted R.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: duder
Date: 2014-06-19 18:32
Hey Barry
Did you get pinged by customs when importing the Lyrique? With postage it goes over the 1000 dollar limit. I had that happen with something else and i had to pay 300 dollars to a customs clearing house then gst.
It adds quite a bit to the overall cost and yes, they include the cost of postage in that
Any advice?
Nick
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-06-19 18:46
I could imagine somebody asking "Just ship me the lower joint this month and charge me $700". And eventually having the whole clarinet. And probably getting caught and going to the pokey.
My late production Ridenour Arioso ASB-101 is supposed to be identical in every respect to the 576BC- except does not have the ergonomic register key that gets mixed reviews. And I got it for hundreds $ less than the Lyrique. And I am very happy with it- I replaced a nice Leblanc Dynamic 2 with it. If Ted has another one left you stand a good chance of slipping under that $1000 mark.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-06-19 21:55)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-06-19 21:37
The new Libertas Clarinet keys are very good. High quality, great ergonomics, and repairmen (at least mine, who is at the top of his field) are fine with them.
No complaints at all.
I'm a long time customer/friend of Tom's Reed system, and his Clarinets (C, etc) now also.
I like the standard register key, as that's what I'm used to, and comfortable with.
A finalist (seems each year!) played a Ridenour in the Oklahoma Festival Competition. A winner recently played it in the competition.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-06-19 22:35
With regard to high temperature effects on Ridenours, I played them in 95 F many times per year, for about 15 years without any degradation of the hard rubber. (Intonation in that environment was as you would expect)
richard smith
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-06-19 22:46
Hi Duder. (Nick) Regarding your question , I"ve sent you an e-mail answering this.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2014-06-19 22:49)
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Author: FDF
Date: 2014-06-20 04:48
Played a couple of parades in the hot sun, could actually smell rubber burning off my Ridenour Clarinet. Yet, it still played with excellent tone and intonation. My principal clarinet is a wooden Selmer CT. I use the Ridenour for many events, and save my Selmer for others. The Ridenour is a great clarinet.
I know I've said something similar before, but it still holds true.
Forest
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-06-20 23:07
I play in several community bands. The concert venues have the entire range of temperatures from freezing to over 100 degrees ... my Ridenour hard rubber instruments are more stable in tuning (than my wood clarinets) and don't suffer from swollen or shrunken tendons that made assembly/dis-assembly forces variable.
When Buffet/Selmer/Yamaha wooden clarinet players borrow my Libertas, the sound is always darker and mellower and they usually remark that the instrument seems lighter and responds more evenly. However, IMHO, Buffet players often voice notes to compensate for tuning anomalies, and at 1st, sound a bit flat in the upper clarion (until they get used to the instrument) and a couple have even remarked that the low F and E seem a little sharp (accustomed to biting, or is it just pitch perception?).
By the way, I sit next to a clarinet performance major in one band, and he remarked that his clarinet professor has played a Buffet Greenline, but had to give it up due to an allergy to the Greenline material. That's a new one ... hypersensitivity, I guess. I suspect that's very unusual ...
Tom
Post Edited (2014-06-21 03:52)
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Author: duder
Date: 2014-06-21 18:28
Well I ordered a 576 today. I must Thank Ted R for his help and advice.
I now need to ready myself for being burnt at the stake for buying a non wood Clarinet.
You know we have a material here in Australia called Medium Density Fibre board.. basically its pulverised wood in an epoxy resin.. mm sounds like "reinforced Grenadilla" does it not.? I am not surprized then that one warped into a banana in Iraq nor am i surprised someone had an allergy to it. I am not poo pooing any brand in particular just I have more reservations about it as a barell medium than any other material. They are not cheap either I see
Take care everyone
Nick
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-06-21 18:35
I expect that once you have your 576 in hand and play for 5 minutes, you will be a happy camper. Nothing in the clarinet world is 100%, but this one is darned close.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2014-06-23 03:03
I have been playing a Libertas professionally since February, and it seems highly unlikely that I will be playing anything else in the forseeable future, particularly given that the Libertas A clarinet will be released soon. I'm extremely happy with it. I think you'll find you made a good choice Tom really, really knows the clarinet, and like David says, cares a great deal about what his name goes on.
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Author: duder
Date: 2014-06-23 15:44
I have thought about this whole rubber vs the world thing and it dawned on me that Tom R is world renowned for designing a top line Clarinet for a top tier company. So does it stand to reason that when he was building his own, that he could have bought his own grenadilla or buy the required parts finished in and then sound them? i think that would be possible so the fact that he chose rubber may have been based on other criteria like reproducibility and sound. The cynics would claim its because he could source it in China, they could also claim that the recent introduction of a grenadilla clarinet in his line up is tantamount to admitting that perhaps grenadilla is better. My thinking is this The chinese can make good stuff if you enact a quality control program and we use many things with brand names made/assembled in china so i am cool with that. The fact that he now makes a wooden one could quite possibly be filling a gap in demand.. This dude designed or help design a top notch clarinets for leblanc so why could he not sell one of his own?
I am largely bemused by the polarising that a clarinet made of rubber causes... its worth spending a grand just to annoy people of the ilk that discards them out of hand.
I will adopt the aristotelean edict and buy an instrument that sounds good. I dont care that its made of the same material my mouth piece is made of ( I never knew they were hard rubber) and in fact thats a good case in point. The mouth piece is paramount in the sound of a clarinet by my reading so why not try a clarinet in the same material?
I was impressed by the amount of help I got from Ted R. These people answer you very quickly and bent over backwards to help me. In contrast I emailed another company with the same email I sent Tom over 2 weeks ago and I have yet to hear back from them. Tom responded in 7 hours. In his response Tom did not choose to comment on the clarinet brand i spoke to him about and my difficulty in playing it.. completely neutral and that is not the hallmark of a man who just wants to sell you something. His diplomacy was duly noted and appreciated .
So I look forward to receiving my 576 and if i get real good at Clarinet then I shall buy a Libertas.
Thanks to all for your opinions and help
I shall let you know how a 576 goes in the hands and lips of an old hack such as I
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-06-23 21:52
Tom determining hard rubber to be a superior material, in his opinion, for clarinet building was predicated by sound and machinability.......nothing else.
When he first tested a hard rubber clarinet he actually didn't know it was hard rubber. He was working at a large music store and his job was to design a proprietary line of clarinets. He tested many clarinets made from various materials in hopes of finding a good framework from which to start. The first hard rubber clarinet he tested set back clarinet acoustics, in his words, "200 years....maybe more". However, the sound was great! Tom looked down the bore and it looked like a gun bore, it was obvious to him (and this has proven correct in the 13 or 14 years since that time) that whatever material this is it machined to tight tolerances. He obviously found out in short order that it was hard rubber.
The wood clarinet we sell was offered because we could........not because we had to. It's a very very small part of our overall line.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
Post Edited (2014-06-23 21:54)
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2014-06-26 17:15
For some reason, the ergonomic register key on my Lyrique C doesn't bother me like the one on my Bb does. Can I take the register key off of an old clarinet and replace the register key on my Ridenour Bb with it?
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2014-06-27 01:37
Claire, I'm afraid there is not a big chance that a key from a different clarinet would fit. The hinge tube on the key would have to have the correct length and diameter. Of course, you can drill and trim the tube. A repad would be necassary in any case.
I own a 576A Lyrique from 2008 and have never reflected on the "ergonomic" register key. The keywork in general can not compete with a Buffet or Leblanc. I just can't play as rapid on the 576A. Don't know if it is ergonomics or heavier key metal or both.
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-06-27 03:12
Providing a standard register key isn't a problem and installation is relatively trouble free.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-06-27 04:59
Woah - I wouldn't diss the current keywork at all. It's high quality, and technique is a non issue asto the keywork.
Feels good in the hands too, and I'm a stickler about that stuff.
Disclaimer: I'm Tom's muscle, someone takes a Clarinet from him and doesn't pay anything after 16 Months, I might come after them and break their reeds
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: bkinlein
Date: 2014-07-12 23:31
Since I'm a "just started" returning student, my thoughts are probably not too relevant to the members of the BB. But when I asked my teacher to try my Lyrique 576BC she was very impressed. Felt it was well made, played very well and, echoing what many others have said, believed that the intonation was better than her R-13. This checking it with a chromatic tuner. Actually, I think she was amazed!
Not a surprise to me as I read that similar comments many places before purchasing. But a confirmation of what I expected. Now I just have to keep working to match her results.
Bart Kinlein
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