 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2014-05-19 22:21
Hello clarinerds! I searched a bit in the archives and BBoard for this and couldn't really find a topic such as this, just brief mentions. I am curious to know, what are your favorite selections or excerpts of pieces you like to noodle with when going through a mouthpiece selection process? What are your favorites and why do you like those selections when trying mouthpieces (what does the selection or excerpt focus on or exploit with the mouthpiece)? I think this could be a fun share and discussion!
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-05-20 01:32
My choice of music would be considered by others to be highly typical: from sections of all 3 movements of the Mozart, to test sound, overtones, ability to play loud and soft, pitch, articulation, etc., as well as Sphor's 1st to see if I could hit double high C.
Nothing about the music I would choose, or why I would choose it would be surprising, and would read like a greatest hits of classical clarinet solos and orchestra excerpts. I'd seek other's opinions as well.
But what may be unusual is I also try sight reading. I seek to find just how flexible the mouthpiece is to (me and) the fact that "I immediately have to play a low G after just having played a quiet high A, and I didn't know that was coming."
There's nothing like throwing yourself into a state of unknown to see how well your tools work for you, and how well you work with your tools.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2014-05-20 04:26
I won't reveal my secret mouthpiece tests, but judging from what I hear at the ClarinetFests, the standard test for all mouthpieces is a death defying ascending chromatic scale, followed by 14 double high C's at various levels of pain, and excerpts from the current "hardest concerto ever". Either that, or some weak jazz licks.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-05-20 04:43
I suppose the most telling question is, "Is your mouthpiece (or any other equipment) audition different in the privacy of your own practice space, vs in front of a crowd, especially of other clarinetists?".
The same nonsense goes on at any NAMM convention, or in your corner guitar store on Saturday afternoon.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-05-20 05:07
Can the mouthpiece play those soft entrances that begin the solos in the Pines of Rome? (Listen to Ralph McLane's recording with the Philadelphia Orchestra).
How does it sound on the cat solo from Peter and the Wolf? Is it absolutely secure on those low notes?
Will it take you through the entire study 16 of Victor Polatschek Advanced Studies, played in strict meter, without squeaks and easily voice all the slurred high notes?
And, yes, does your tongue feel free, light, and agile playing the staccato in the Scherzo from Mid Summer Nights Dream? Ditto for Stravinsky's Story of a Soldier staccato sections where you echo the trumpet figures. (Listen to Harold Wright's recording with the Boston Symphony Chamber players),
The first movement of the Hindemith Concerto is good for testing intonation.
Never, never, never just noodle or play free-floating cadenzas, and please don't see how loud you can play an open G holding the reed on the mouthpiece with your thumb.
Post Edited (2014-05-20 06:41)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-05-23 04:01
I always take some excerpts and etudes with me when trying out new mouthpieces. The Polatschek Advanced Studies are great for this because they make you play passages designed to meet the actual demands of composers rather than the caprices of noodling. No noodler would ever spontaneously play the interval successions in Polatschek study #12 (after Bedrich Semetana), because they are awkward, require an intense air stream, supple embouchure, and unbroken concentration, yet that is exactly the kind of disciple a clarinetist needs to meet the non-ego requirements of music written by other people. No one pays us to noodle.
Playing an entire etude, from start to finish, in meter, places stress on the performer and the mouthpiece that noodling does not. There is never any question such as "will I get through this noodle"; but many players negotiating the rapids and rocks of the 15th Etude in Jeanjean's 18 Etudes may wonder if there is light at the end of that demanding Impressionist tunnel. A mouthpiece that gets you through the technical and musical demands of that etude without squeaks, falsely overblown 12ths, grunts or undertones, and delayed speaking of 12ths is likely to get you through anything--much more than a mouthpiece that is merely "fun" to play and flattering to your best side.
Thurston's Passage Studies, Book 3, also has some great stuff that is totally non-self-indulgent, and makes the player ask all the hard questions that need to be asked about the mouthpiece's objective performance.
Finally, down through the years, I have seen many clarinetists buy mouthpieces that flattered some part of their noodling ego, such as big sound, for instance ("Wow, my sound is as big as a house on this thing") yet the mouthpieces failed when called upon to perform in soft entrances, or tied the throat up in lengthy articulation, or did not tune or blend well. If the mouthpiece will make delicate entrances like the Pines of Rome and allow rapid arpeggiated staccato such as in The Story of a Solider, and tune well, a good player should make the effort (and, as you said, select the right reeds) to learn to like it.
Such a mouthpiece may not flatter the player but is likely to do justice to the music the player is performing.
Post Edited (2014-05-23 04:49)
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2014-05-23 05:30
It kind of surprises me there's such strong opinions on what pieces to play when TESTING MOUTHPIECES!! This isn't a Curtis audition.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-05-23 05:53
Beethoven's 6th Sym excerpts, Capriccio Espagnol, and also A Clarinet excerpts such as Brahms, etc. Mozart Concerto works well also, as something mentioned.
12ths, octaves, and other tuning work.
And if I feel like screwing around, some Corigliano.
And always remember to bring a few different strengths of reeds if you really want to test the Mouthpiece, as if it isn't your same facing, brand, it certainly might need a harder, or softer strength reed.
~~~~D~~~~
www.MyTempoMusic.com
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-05-24 06:07
Hi Tyler,
First, a quick answer. It takes weeks or months to really get to know all the quirks and strengths of any new mouthpiece. Noodling won't tell you much and even playing through an entire concerto won't tell you everything either. But you have to look for the most important features. If the mouthpiece doesn't articulate well, doesn't tune well, doesn't bridge intervals well, and can't begin a tone smoothly and taper up and down to different dynamic levels while retaining a core sound, then you can't use it in an orchestra. Even if makes a tone that would bring tears to an angel's eyes.
You can do more than noodle on any new mouthpiece, but only if you can match a reed to it. Noodling, in fact, merely wastes the time you should be using to really become acquainted with the mouthpiece and its reed requirements. My Jeanjean example was just an extreme way of making this point.
Any clarinetist with a decent assortment of reeds can best find out the characteristics of a new mouthpiece by playing something with STRUCTURE to it. Ralph McLane reportedly tried out new clarinets and mouthpieces by playing nursery rhyme tunes like "Rock A-bye Baby on a Tree Top on them. You can noodle any way you want to but a nursery rhyme demands something more of you than the aimless caprice of noodles. You have to make nice beginnings (entrances) to the tone, play it in tune, phrase it with a certain respect for its melodic and rhythmic contours, and taper off at the end. How well your mouthpiece lets you do this tells you more about its properties than narcissistic rippling through scales. arpeggios, and somebody else's jazz licks.
Even if you want to play heavy metal or the most outre avant guard, those kinds of music have their own structural requirements (multiphonics, percussive articulation) that also require some deliberate attention to more than noodling.
Like anyone else, when first trying a mouthpiece, I will play a few scales, both slurred and articulate. If I get squeaks or whistles, if the resistance is so great the tone is muffled, or it is so lacking in resistance that the sound rattles, then clearly I must try several reeds to see if the fault is in the mouthpiece or the reed. If I can clear up the problem by finding a decent reed match, the next step is to try some passages and etudes most familiar to me to test certain properties of the mouthpiece that are important to orchestral, chamber music, and solo playing more or less in the "classical" style.
Most clarinetists with a few years training and at the high school level or above can play many of the etudes in Polatschek's Advanced Studies. They do not have to be played at a fast pace to test the mouthpiece. Study #1, based on J.S. Bach, is a wonderful test of the "cushion" that a mouthpiece has in making legato connections between the notes. Playing this etude very slowly and taking care to be a legato as possible will stress the embouchure enough to know if the mouthpiece is difficult to play. If it leaves the performer exhausted that may mean the reed needs to be thinned to accomodate it, or perhaps the mouthpiece is just more resistant than the player should play. The player needs at the very least to make a note of this characteristic of the mouthpiece and keep it in mind.
One of the reasons I don't play mouthpieces with facings wider than about 1.06 mm is that in 50 years of playing I've never been able to make them feel comfortable precisely when I play long legato passages like those in Polatschek #1. I've tried every possible reed combination but my own lips and lungs like smaller openings by far (0.96 to 1.05). Noodling, I would never have discovered this. I can blast away most contentedly on a Vandoren B40, B45, or B40 lyre. playing the highest C and wailing on the Rhapsody in Blue Cadenza, but I can't can't make those mouthpieces ride a silky path through the Polatschek #1 the way I do on a Vandoren M14 or a Grabner G11*, or a Behn Artist (0.98 mm facing). So, I conclude that those wider facings are just not right for me, though they may be perfect for others.
Just because mouthpieces are different doesn't mean you can't find out their most salient features in a relatively short time. Let's look at some mouthpieces I have on my desk that I am either reasonably happy or very happy to play. I still remember my first impressions for most of these and of course after playing them for some time I have more deeply ingrained impressions.
The Zinner-Based Group
These tend to have a darker, more covered sound that many other models and do not emphasize a strong focus point. My Mo-Ba Camerata is open just 0.99 at the tip. It plays easily on many brands of reeds, usually #3 strength.
I can play all the way through the Polatchek #1 on this with a smooth legato and still feel quite fresh.
Next, my Kessler/Backun II with a 1.06 tip. Right away, I sensed the power of this one, which is capable of playing a wider dynamic range than the Mo-Ba Camerata. I have to thin the reed a little to accomodate the more open tip. This one also gets me through the Polatchek #1 smoothly but with a bit more edge on the tone and leaves me a little more weary. I knew right away that if I am feeling very energetic, The Keller/Backun II is fine. If I want to lay back a little, the Mo-Ba Camerata is better.
The Walt Grabner G11*. This one has a tip opening of 1.02. It got me through the Polatschek #1 the first time, very smoothly with a very dark sound. This Zinner-based piece does not incorporate the tonal edge of the Kessler/Backun II or the Mo-Ba Camerata. That means you have to find a very vibrant reed to focus the really chocolately tone. Vandoren V-12s do the job. When I tried other demanding excerpts, I sensed that I could really "paint" the tone on this one but if my mind wandered a little it might go out of focus. Still, if anything, this is my favorite of the three Zinner-based pieces and I am willing to work a little harder to voice the tone and exploit its possibilities for richness.
next, Brad Behn's Artist Model 0.98 mm. facing, on a Behn rubber blank.
This is very different from the 3 Zinner-based models above. Behn gave me a heads up that I should use an AW 3 on these, and I settled on the 301 cut. If the Zinners are like chocolate or dark chocolate, this one is like a little laser light. When I first played through the Polatschek #1, the Behn got me through, making the legato intervals in a very lean and sculpted way, like a greyhound. You can sense the steel-like frame on each note, holding the tone together. Very focused and taut, the sound would still have center, I think, even if I dozed off a little while playing. I knew all this after playing it for just a few minutes, and several months playing it have just deepened by impressions but not changed my opinion much.
So the very different Grabner G11* and Behn Artist Model have become my two working mouthpieces. I have to change reeds and even mindset to switch from one to the other, but I think that is giving my embouchure more flexibility then ever. Both make soft entrances, are easy to articulate on, bridge wide intervals smoothly, and let you play for extended periods without undue fatigue. The sound is the last thing I look for. There is an objective standard to dynamics, pitch, and articulation. Sound or timbre is much more subjective. The Grabner G11* and the Behn Artist don't sound much alike. but I like both sounds and both can accommodate a wide range of musical genres. I may find a third fasvorite mouthpiece with yet another timbre, but I won't choose it if it doesn't get me through the Polatschek (or the equally excellent Alfred Prinz Twenty-Five Etudes) and my favorite test orchestral excerpts.
No, you don't need the hardest etude in Jeanjean to choose a mouthpiece. A careful playing through sections of the Mozart Concerto would make you "demand" something real and musical from the mouthpiece just as well.
Post Edited (2014-05-24 07:59)
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Author: donald
Date: 2014-05-24 09:18
You can tell A LOT about a clarinet by playing two tunes....
- Tie a Yellow Ribbon (starting on clarion F), the leap up to D "old oak tree" bit is very revealling, plus the downward leaps, and in that key very good for checking tuning on throat tones- and which resonance fingerings may/may not work.
- My Bonnie lies over the ocean starting on "C above middle C" (ie the lowest clarion C). THEN start the same tune on the clarion F... this tells you a lot about the resonance/tuning/security of the clarion register.
That is where I start, before I bother checking for articulation etc
Something often neglected but very simple- a slow CHROMATIC SCALE from low E. I am constantly amazed how even advanced (and professional level) players can get an instrument home, and then discover that a certain note is fuzzy etc. For heavens sake, just PLAY THEM ALL slowly in a chromatic scale. [I have made myself very unpopular at Clarinetfests-past by trying out "hand picked" clarinets and discovering shortcomings using these three basic tests]
Of course, then I would consider tunes/excerpts etc with articulation and a wider range
dn
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-05-24 20:17
Pick out one (using material that you are currently working on and/or playing) that is in the ballpark, in terms of facing, with what you use now. There must be something you like about what you are currently playing, so don't make a radical change at once. Purchase the MP and give it a month, especially in ensemble playing and in several different acoustical spaces. If you don't like it, usually most MPs can be sold ... I've unloaded quite a few that didn't work out or that I outgrew.
I've bought MPs based on just a few minutes of playing, took them home, and practiced with them. Seemed very good. When I got my 1st opportunity to play in an ensemble, sometimes found that the MP just didn't feel right ... couldn't get into the sound ... didn't blend or didn't project. Tried again next day. Back to the drawing board.
Sometimes, something that sounds good, feels good at home or the practice room is a real disappointment in ensemble playing.
If you are using an M13 and and are placed next to a guy that's half your age, twice as big, comes from the Mac Truck school of clarinet playing with #2 reed on a 5JB, unless the conductor diplomatically intervenes, Houston, you have a problem! (this is a true circumstance)
Same thing goes for reeds ... I've discovered, for example, in one of two community bands that I play in, the orange box Ricos and Mitchell Lurie have a nice presence and center (sometimes a bit nasal) that blends well. Woodwind quintet: Vandoren V12s. Other (outdoor) community band: Legere. Church gig: blue box VD. You neighborhood musicians tuning/timbre/dynamics and the average pitch/timbre of the ensemble makes a difference ...
My usual rambling post ... sorry.
Tom
Post Edited (2014-05-24 20:20)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-05-24 22:47
First, check intonation, playing slow scales, arpeggios and wide intervals. As Keith Stein said, a mouthpiece that plays out of tune is useless, no matter how good it sounds.
Second, make as many different sounds as possible to find out whether the mouthpiece has flexibility.
I've read that Ralph McLane tried out new equipment by playing the Brahms Lullaby. You don't have to play fast to hear how a mouthpiece sounds. Sure you'll noodle, popping high Cs (as in the Martino Set for Clarinet), but playing a perfectly even, singing line is more important.
I also listen for a high-frequency "ping" in the tone, which gives you carrying power. And how to vary it's strength to play beneath the melodic line or step forward for the solo line.
I go over to the corner of the room, face inward and play a fortissimo low E and gradually fade it away to nothing, listening for and bringing out the B above it, until it's louder than the E.
The opening of the Saint-Saens Sonata will test the quality of the throat tones and the ability to go over the chalemeau-clarion break smoothly. The second movement tests the ability to play a light staccato. The third movement tests the resonance of the low tones and then the ability to play softly and cross back and forth across the clarion-altissimo break.
Ken Shaw
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2014-05-26 02:33
Sort of OT:
There are no high C's in the Martino Set, just a B or two.
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