 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-05-11 18:26
. . . . and a query at the end.
Like most of us, I have a box full of mouthpieces, ligatures, caps, and unopened containers of reeds. In my case it's a shoe box with the name "Brooks Bros." on it.
And like most of us, I am always trying new combinations of mouthpieces, ligatures and reeds. And finally, like most of us, I think all that all that experimenting is just a way to unload nervous energy. Letting off steam, so to speak. Like a steam locomotive at rest.
Given my (probably too) extensive medical and psychiatric training, I think that is a reasonably workable analysis. That nervous energy would of course be better spent in practicing, but that's the nature of the beast and I accept those little time-outs as part of my practice sessions, as do we all, methinks.
Now then. The other day I was searching through my Brooks Brothers shoe box on one of those disguised rest-breaks and I came across a Beechler mouthpiece marked "4S". In Beechler-jargon that tells of an opening of "4" (their narrowest) and a short (the "S") lay or facing length.
Well to make a long story longer, not having used it for 30 years (Yes, thirty!), I mounted it, selected a reed slipped it under a Rovner Light, and blew.
My astonishment knew no boundaries! Although a bit edgy, it was perfectly in tune from bottom to top at A=442, it's tone was pure, and best of all it slipped over the break up, down, and around, like an Olympic figure skater.
Of course I immediately removed it and peered inside while booting up my trusty Macintosh and Googling "Beechler clarinet mouthpieces".
I found that it has a "horseshoe-shaped chamber", a "concave baffle", and is shorter than other mouthpieces in my disparate collection.
Because all - every - each - Vandoren mouthpiece I have, will barely play at A=440, and then only with a hissy #3, or #4 reed, I placed the Beechler and a B45 face-to-face and discovered that the Beechler is about 5/32" shorter than all - each - every Vandoren mouthpiece in my Brooks Brothers shoebox.
Why, I asked myself, instead of buying shorter barrels, do we not simply request shorter mouthpieces from manufacturers?
I now ask you; do you know of any other captains of industry, i.e. clarinetistic, who offer for sale shorter clarinet mouthpieces?
Thanks all.
Bruno> In the year of our Lord, and my wife's birthday (Nevermind which!) Sunday, May 11, 2014
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-05-11 19:09
I'm told that Ed Pillinger of Stanmore, Middx, UK, will make them to order for B & H and similar large bore clarinets. I've never tried to order one, so I cannot state this with certainty. I have a large bore mouthpiece of unknown origin which is approx 3mm shorter than most others in my Bata shoe box. It plays well and in tune in a B & H 1010
Tony F.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-05-11 19:37
Ben Redwine's Gennusa line is also available in different lengths to solve pitch issues.
I have been a bit leery of the length premise in and of itself as a solution for pitch. The shape of the interior portions also has an effect on the generated pitch from the mouthpiece (and subsequent result of the overall clarinet pitch).
My favorite extreme example is the Boosey and Hawkes 1010 and it's species specific mouthpiece. The bore of the clarinet demands a continuation of this large dimension into the mouthpiece via an almost perfectly cylindrical bore (opposed to the conical mouthpiece bore of every other clarinet). The length of these mouthpieces is actually SHORTER than most, but the internal volume is much more vast and much more acoustically different than any other (but a required acoustical match for the 1010 clarinet).
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-05-11 20:05
I think you know this sir, but the pieces of the clarinet, the length, bore size, tone hole placement, etc. all represent compromise regarding getting as many of the notes as close to as in key and sounding "nice" as possible. The extent to which manufacturers work on this I'm sure varies, but even "green plastic clarinets" on ebay aren't deliberately designed poorly, but rather as a product of the realities that attention to detail and research costs money. This of course applies to mouthpieces as well.
For example, the very fact that clarinets almost invariably have an upper and lower joint, rather than come in one piece like Efers introduce compromise in the placement of things like the G#/C# key: close enough to the end of the upper joint for intonation, far enough so that this hole isn't too close to the end of a joint to risk being compromised by limits of clarinet making material failure (a fancy way of describing a tone hole near the outer ends of a instrument piece that develops a crack that travels TO the outer ends of ths instrument piece.)
That you, a tester of one, using a specific setup got great results don't necessarily transfer to other reeds (of similar strength and manufacture), practice sessions, weather conditions, or most important, other players and their setups. Or atleast you don't report results with other reeds on the same mouthpiece, or other mouthpieces with the same reed. But maybe you've done this. In fairness, your attempt at locating other shorter mouthpiece vendors though should be applauded if your intent on doing so is to seek to test/research cause and effect between mouthpiece length and intonation further.
You also don't report having had other players try this on your discovered mouthpiece--although maybe you have, or find it difficult to line up test subjects. At least now that you've expressed your results, other players will hopefully come forward to report similar successes, if in fact reproducible.
While it's possible you've found a holy grail of clarinet play, and I hope for your sake you have, (and if transferrable to other players then for all our sakes you have) a far more likely scenario is one that's case specific to you, and hopefully, reproducible for you and your setup, across reeds and other factors over time.
Is it unreasonable to presume you've tried this mouthpiece in the past, (on the same or different setups) and didn't get such favorable results, or does your clarinet supplies box include products never tried before?
Is it unreasonable to ask if your discovery has transferable success, why nobody has stubled upon it before? Sure, many things have been discovered by accident in our world. But yet far more in more recent history have been uncovered through research and testing. And many of us clarinet players like to tinker: something I do as well, and have no issue with others doing, as long as it's in moderation. Rest periods between play are useful. So it's reasonable to assume that what you experienced might have been stumbled upon before if truly a concrete solution to tuning /play issues.
"Why, I asked myself, instead of buying shorter barrels, do we not simply request shorter mouthpieces from manufacturers?"
Woa...ask yourself first if the phenomenon you found is reproduceible over time, across other players, setups, and shorter mouthipieces. Ask why the Vandoren M30D, a mouthpiece designed for both Oehler and Boehm clarinets, whose insert into a Boehm barrel is slightly longer than such a barrel can take DOES play in tune, or at least not flat. Ask if your mouthpiece shortening, if in fact reproducable across players, transfers to "A" clarinets as well.
Then, if your results show promise, we can ask the mouthpiece manufacturers to consider retooling.
Post Edited (2014-05-12 20:19)
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-05-11 21:56
I believe you're right, Paul. The bore on the Beechler I have is huge when compared with my others. And the baffle is interesting inasmuch as it is concave and has no post-tip-rail bump, yet the mouthpiece is very bright, almost as though it had a bump in the baffle. Interesting.
The break is so smooth in execution and sound it's as though there is no break. The timbre, resistance, and ease are the same all through G, Ab, A, Bb, and B.
If it had a rounder, less bright tone it would be my first choice mouthpiece, because it certainly is easy to play!
bruno>
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Author: Wes
Date: 2014-05-12 00:28
If you really want a shorter mouthpiece if yours is under 440 for a certain situation, your friendly repair person can probably shorten it on their lathe, as I have done on occasion. The Zinner blanks that used to be sold in the USA were great but a little low in pitch, so one simply made them shorter.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-05-12 18:01
Paul Aviles wrote,
>I have been a bit leery of the length premise in and of itself as a solution for pitch. The shape of the interior portions also has an effect on the generated pitch from the mouthpiece (and subsequent result of the overall clarinet pitch).
>
Yes -- I have several short mouthpieces that came in the cases with vintage or antique clarinets. Not one of those short mouthpieces plays well on any modern clarinet I own. Aside from the higher overall pitch, they mess up the intonation on the throat tones, especially, so that some notes come in flat and others sharp. Similarly, my modern mouthpieces rarely play well on old clarinets.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-05-12 19:37
Paul and Lelia; I have to say that I carefully measured the pitch with the Beechler by carefully blowing double-lipped and single-lipped and using an electronic tuner at A=442 and A=440 (mpc. pulled a bit). At present, it's the most in-tune mouthpiece I have. Even the throat tones are bright and in tune without the necessity of extra 'voicing keys'. I'm not making this up, kids!
And when one considers that the length of a tube is the primary determiner of pitch I can't see why shortening the length of that tube exactly at the sound-generating end would not be a solution with very possibly the fewest side-effects on the rest of the tube.
I did mention that Beechler mouthpieces have large bores and deep baffles so that too has an effect as Paul points out, but that effect is not necessarily detrimental.
Beechler is an old company and respected among saxophone players. I can't see why they wouldn't have the savvy to make a successful clarinet mouthpiece. It's not magic.
B>
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-05-12 19:53
I hope it didn't sound as though I was discounting the Beechler affect on your clarinet. If it is working great (and it sounds as though it is) then that is GREAT news!
I was only adding to the plate that there are some other considerations and wildly different acoustic considerations. The German clarinet bore (real German that is) such as a Wurlitzer Oehler system clarinet has a bore size not too different (if you look just at the bore diameter that is, but the bore DOES remain smaller until much closer to the bell, French clarinets start to flare about 2/3rds down the lower joint) from what we know and love here in the States. However, the matching mouthpiece needs to be much SMALLER with a tighter bore to make ALL the acoustics of that particular instrument work.
I am not an acoustic engineer but there are different diameters at different points along the tube that make a difference, different placements of tone holes, differences to where the flare to which I referred starts. Some of these designs beg for a different initial tone generator (mouthpiece).
My leeriness is really with mouthpiece manufacturers who try to achieve some "talking point" at the expense of something else that might cause even bigger problems for the player than the gains he/she is trying to make.
But if it work, it works.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-05-13 23:14
I think it has been said before - but mouthpieces don't have a "pitch".
Yes one may play higher or lower than another but the pitch, whether 440 442 or 445, is a result of all of the components of the clarinet "system" and that system also includes the player's acoustic anatomy.
B&H mouthpieces 926 and 1010 are about 2mm shorter than most typical boehm mouthpieces specifically to compensate for their larger internal volume.
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