 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lucho
Date: 2014-05-11 02:49
Hi my name is Luis and I am from Costa Rica. I bought a Kohlert's Sons Kraslice Bb Clarinet made in Czechoslovakia; series 2392 on the big section and 2348 on the upper section. It has a Boehm System. Can you help me to figure out the year it was made and any other importan information that shuold be aware?
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2014-05-11 03:25
See my postings from 2012-05-02 and from2013-10-15 here:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=371069&t=370856
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=394584&t=394561
Post Edited (2014-05-11 03:36)
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-05-13 00:37
If you know someone who is into history, they may be able to help you nail down the approximate date of manufacturer. The city in which the original Kohlert factory was located was Kraslice which was later renamed to Graslitz. The country in which that city was located was Bohemia, then Czecho-Slovakia, and then Czechoslovakia. The production records were lost during WWII when the Nazis took over the factory and moved production nearer Berlin to try to use it to generate income for their war effort. At that point, the quality of their instruments dropped significantly (the rumor is that they managed to leave some critical tools in Graslitz). To complicate matters further, the company name progressed from V. Kohlert to V. Kohlert and Sons to V. Kohlert Sons. So far as I am aware, post war production was identified simply as Kohlert. Immediately post war, several Kohlert technicians left Germany and began production in a variety of areas with each one claiming the Kohlert name.
The fact that your instrument has two different serial numbers is a strong indication that, at some point, it sustained some sort of serious damage. It was simply more economical to replace the damaged joint with one from another instrument that, probably, had severe damage, too, but had the necessary joint undamaged.
I have a pre-war Kohlert that I started using in Junior High (late 1950s). I rarely use it anymore since I have a collection of Selmers from which to choose (Model 55, Centered Tone, Series 9, Series 10, and an early Selmer USA for which I am still trying to get a solid identification). But, I have had the Kohlert for so long that it seems like a part of me and I have no intention of letting go of such a fine instrument. I have just given up on finding a solid manufacture date for it.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2014-05-13 13:50
Sorry, Bart. The chronology was a bit different, see also my older postings cited above: Graslitz till WW I was a town in the mainly German populated border region of the Austrian empire; so the instruments were marked „...Graslitz“, and for export purposes „...Bohemia“. After WW I it was „V. Kohlert's Söhne Graslitz Czecho- Slovakia“. After Nazi Germany had, by the Munich treaty of 1938, taken over the German- Bohemian border region, it became: “Graslitz, Sudetengau”.
It wasn't necessary for Nazi Germany to take over or move the Kohlert factory; they just took over Czechoslovakia as a whole and left the Kohlerts where they were, to change over, a year or so later, from music instruments to munitions.
And, (from my older posting): „After WW II, till about 1948, when the Germans (“Sudetendeutsche”) were expropriated and expelled by the Czechoslovak state, it was “V.Kohlerta Synobe Kraslice” . The former Kohlert workshops were then taken over by the state owned Amati company.
At Winnenden near Stuttgart, South Germany, [the Kohlerts] started their business again. The instruments were then stamped “Kohlert & Co. Winnenden” They had to give up, as far as I know, about 1980. In 2010 I saw rests of their stock offered on eBay".
Post Edited (2014-05-13 13:57)
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-05-14 01:22
Thanks for the information. The history of Kohlert is definitely confusing. I am not a historian, so I have to rely on those who are to fill in the blanks. As I recall, the concept of the factory being moved came from an article written by a couple of "experts" whose names I am not able to remember. I believe the title was something along the lines of "What Ever Happened to Kohlert". I am more than happy to yield to someone with greater knowledge. In any event, I think we can agree that Kohlert was not benefited by war.
What I can tell you for sure is that I have a Kohlert marked "V. Kohlert Sons, Graslitz, Czecho-Slovakia". There are slight variations in the manufacture's name from your chronology, so possibly made for export -- especially since it is LP. I got it from my brother in the late 1950s when he got his Selmer CT. He had gotten it from a neighbor down the street who bought it used in Berkeley, CA and later decided that he was not interested in clarinet.
Again, thanks for the information. I am fascinated by trying to put together the pieces of the Kohlert history. From your chronology, I would assume that mine was manufactured between the end of WWI and 1938.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-05-14 01:28
Allowing for variation in the manufacturer's name, I would also assume that the instrument asked about by the OP would be from some time between the end of WWII and 1948.
Though I do find it odd that the OP indicates a four digit serial number while my, presumably older, instrument has a six digit serial number. Mine has no markings other than on the bell. Did they restart the numbering when they restarted the company? That would make sense with the loss of their earlier records.
In any event, I am very happy with the instrument I have. I used it as a loaner while I did a complete overhaul on a friend's Buffet. When the overhaul was done, she was not sure she wanted to return the Kohlert.
Post Edited (2014-05-14 01:57)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-05-14 03:57
http://test.woodwind.org/oboe/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=306762&t=306726&v=t
http://archive.today/LbJJW
Post Edited (2014-05-14 04:00)
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-05-14 04:51
You beat me to it. I was just about to post the second URL. I guess it has just been too long since I read the article and I remembered it incorrectly.
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Author: lucho
Date: 2014-05-14 10:24
Thank you very much to all of you. The information is very helpful and the history is even more interesting.
Tks for your time I will be looking forward to de sure address that you shared with me.
God bless you all.
Lucho
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2014-05-14 15:16
Thank you David for the Kohlert/Lein link (I didn't know the article till now) and your defense of Kohlert from 2009.
I find the stories around the expelled Graslitz instrument makers fascinating. As the Leins point out, in the post-war years some West-German communities, e.g. Nauheim, helped them resettle and take up production again, under most primitive circumstances, in stables, washhouses etc. (the Leins mention "barracks", but I think they were told, in German, about "Baracken", that is sheds). The Opel company is said to have allowed them to salvage scrap metal from bomb destroyed workshops. So they helped starting the German "Wirtschaftswunder". They also continued the Graslitz tradition in musical practice and teaching, e.g. founded community bands.
Some of them have survived better than Kohlert, for example Püchner, especially renowned for their bassoons; Schreiber, today under the Buffet roof; Julius (Saxophones) and Richard Keilwerth, while the products of state- owned successor Amati in Kraslice for many years, till after 1989, had a rather questionable reputation.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-05-16 00:50
Thank you, lucho, for posting the Kohlert serial number chart (separate post). When I was seriously researching my Kohlert a number of years ago, I was assured that the pre-WWII records had been destroyed. Your posting shows that was clearly not the case or someone went to a huge amount of work to reconstruct the chart. Given that all instruments from Kohlert were in the same series of serial numbers (regardless of type of instrument) the chart places my clarinet at 1934 and yours (obviously) at 1950. Given that yours still carries the Kraslice identification, it must have been one of the last Kohlerts produced there before moving to Winnenden.
I apologize for muddying the waters with my faulty memory without rechecking it.
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