 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-05-07 21:24
Ok, I am planning to buy a new clarinet on the near future and I feel tired of Buffets. I have heard good things about selmer and was wondering which one you thought was the best. I am 15, planning a long term future as a musician. Just give any experiences you've had with Selmer (Paris) clarinets. Thanks.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Roxann
Date: 2014-05-07 21:40
My experience is very limited. I bought a used one awhile back. It was very heavy and the keys seemed much further apart than what was comfortable for my small hands. The instrument, itself, made nice music!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-05-07 22:06
The finest clarinet I've ever laid my hands on is a Selmer Centered Tone. Sadly, these have been out of production for decades.
At age 15, planning on making music your life's work, I imagine you'll be going off to conservatory or university. If I were you, I'd keep your R13 set until then, and make any switch with the guidance of your teacher(s) there.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2014-05-07 23:26
In my opinion, the best Selmer is the Recital: excellent intonation,beautiful round tone, creamy sound. The down side is its added thickness and weight, which may slow you down a bit and takes some getting used to. Nevertheless, it has stood the test of time, for it has existed for thirty years or so. Some top players play it, albeit not that many. Good luck in your career. Follow your dream and don't let anybody put you off it!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: wanabe
Date: 2014-05-08 02:50
My question is why do you, "feel tired of Buffets"? The two clarinets that you listed are more than capable of taking you through high school and any good undergraduate program at just about any university. If you just need a change, why not consider a change of music or composers or styles. Playing a different style of music, even for a short while, will provide a refreshing change of pace for you and broaden your musical abilities. Besides that it would be a lot easier on the bank account to change composers or styles than to change clarinets, especially at that level.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-05-08 05:02
I could give you a lot of reasons to be "tired of Buffet."
Suffice to say that the Selmer Privilege is a Buffet killer of GREAT proportions !! This instrument plays with an exceedingly focused sound and can produce hair raising sound pressure levels. And the very best part......I played at least four individual examples over the course of three years and the ALL PLAYED IN TUNE !!!
Buffet who?
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2014-05-08 19:11
I like the Selmer clarinets very much. Like Ruben, my favorite is the Recital. I love the flexibility and evenness of the sound. If you're trying clarinets, make sure you at least try one of the Backun models, and the new Ridenour Libertas - both getting excellent reviews lately. I love the Backun MOBA (saving up for one), and have not tried the Libertas yet. Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-05-08 22:00
Ive tried the MoBa and I loved it. I loved the sound and the versatility of the sound. If I had £5,000 then I would buy one! But that is around my budget for two clarinets so unfortunately that is a no go. I also tried the Protege and liked it very much although I felt a bit restricted although it may have been that particular one, when I go to Howarth next, I will certainly try another protege (do they do an A?) and a few selmers and some prestiges. I just wish I had not been blinded by Buffet a while back.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-05-08 22:49
If you liked the woody sound of the Mo-Ba, you might also like the Yamaha CSG, which doesn't even cost half as much and tunes just as well as the Mo-Ba and the Selmer Recital without adding any extra weight. The Yamaha CSG, with its somewhat Germanic bore, certainly gives you a clear alternative to the much brighter and edgier sounding Buffet R13 and Buffet Festival models. Use a Mo-Ba mouthpiece on it, and you get even closer to the Mo-Ba sound, if that is what you like. The Yamaha CSG has good quality control--most of them play pretty well right out the box-- and is in every sense a professional level clarinet that is gradually making its appearance in American and French symphony orchestras.
Post Edited (2014-05-08 22:51)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2014-05-08 23:15
I have no experience with the newest Selmers, but have played a couple of Selmer Balanced Tones, a couple of Centered Tones, a Series 10S, and a Recital. All were excellent instruments, and I preferred every model to Buffets.
My gigging horn is a 1955 Centered Tone.
My advice--check out a whole bunch of them, and if you like them, pick your favorite.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-05-08 23:22
I also agree that the Selmer Privilege is a splendid instrument, far better suited to current concepts of performing orchestral music or the classical chamber and solo literature than the old Selmer CT model, but the Privilege is in the Mo-Ba and Buffet Divine price range--way more than a high school student should have to pay. I have a rubber Ridenour Libertas Lyrique that I thoroughly enjoy. For just about $1500, it has no real competition. The Lyrique tunes well and has a much more robust sound, capable of a wider dynamic range, than I had been led to expect by some of the reviews. The Lyrique has its own sound--slightly on the dark side but with plenty of sparkle. I had to try several different reeds before I got one that favors the Lyrique design and brings out its full resonance. The AW 301 cut in 3.5 works perfectly for me (Behn imports these, and so does Just for Winds in Kentucky). I have several mouthpieces that work well on the Lyrique. These include the Mo-Ba Camerata, the Kessler-Backun II, the Hawkins B model, the Vandoren Masters CL4, and the Clark Fobes CWF-all paired with AW 301 strength 3.5 reeds. Some other mouthpiece and reed combinations fog up the sound, so you have to try several.
The bottom line for me is that one excellent model/brand clarinet does not play like another excellent model. They are all different, especially now that the industry goal is no longer to clone the Buffet R13 (thank goodness!)
If I were playing mostly big band jazz, I still might prefer the Selmer CT to any of these for that very specific purpose. Also, I cannot make the Lyrique sound exactly like a Yamaha CSG or a Selmer Recital or Privilege, or a Mo-Bo, or a Buffet Divine. But neither do any of these sound exactly like a Lyrique, and they ALL sound good, just in different ways. !
I'm glad that many of us have stopped worshiping at the shrine of the R13. Finally, we have real choices.
Post Edited (2014-05-09 00:00)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-05-09 01:22
I must disagree. The Privilege is about three fifths of the MoBa and Divine costing around £3,300 instead of the £5,000 ish of the other two.
sea breeze, I don't think I'd want to change my mouthpiece again, I am quite content with the Rico Reserve I am on now (upgraded from a B40). I don't like the idea of changing too many things at once, that would only confuse me!
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2014-05-09 09:17
Dear Seabreeze: Which Yamaha CSG do you have in mind? I see there are I, II, and III. From what I've understood, the closest to the German bore is III. Jerôme Voisin here in France uses one: a fantastic player. The Selmer Recital attempts to achieve something between the French and German clarinet. The diameter of its bore is by no means German, but its flare is.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-05-09 18:42
I love Voisin's playing. I heard him play in the orchestra for a performance of the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto and the sound was dark and sonorous; it projected with full, round sonority, In the US I tried a Yamaha CSG II recently and liked it very much--much more than my Buffet. I found it very flexible, better in tune, and the altissimo spoke with great ease and more substance in the sound than the same on either the Buffet R13 or Festival. I don't know about the names assigned to these models. Someone told me that the model sold in the US as the Yamaha CSG II is the same as the one sold in Europe as the CSG Yamaha III, but I don't know if that is true.
I bought a Ridenour Lyrique Libertas in March and am also pleased with it, especially for just $1500. Each excellent clarinet exhibits a different kind of excellence. The Yamaha CSG for those looking for a quasi-German sound on a Boehm instument, the Buffet Divine for great concentration and centering in the tone, the Privilege for extraordinary dynamics and vitality, the Mo-Ba for a woody, covered sound, and the Libertas for a fairly dark sound that still has a nice gleam and sparkle.
I now prefer all these clarinets to the typical Buffet R-13, which often sounds thin and shrill when first purchased and is likely to require much more custom servicing before it tunes or responds nearly as well. I have also tried the Selmer Recital and Signature models. I don't care for the extra weight of the Recital or the very resistant feel of the Signature, though both tune very well and have good, substantial tone quality. I would much prefer the Yamaha CSG (II or III?) that I tried as a fine and still affordable alternative to the Buffet.
By the way, I believe that to get the best from any new instrument, one must be willing to change the mouthpiece and reed setup. This is especially true now that the Boehm clarinet market includes such a wide variety of bore sizes and tapers, barrel designs (the CSG barrel varies markedly from anything else now available) and other acoustically significant differences. Someone switching from a Buffet R13 to a Yamaha CSG (II or III), for instance, should be prepared to try different mouthpiece and reed combinations to reveal the true strengths of the new instrument. It is possible but very unlikely that the very best mouthpiece and reed combo for the CSG will be exactly the same as the one for the R13.
Post Edited (2014-06-06 17:43)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-05-09 20:22
As someone who buys mouthpieces to fit my reeds, I would say that you fit your clarinet to YOU and YOUR set-up. Otherwise, what do you have?
...................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-05-11 10:16
Tom has always had relatively good things to say about the "Signature"....the only reason I mention this is because unless I missed it no one mentioned the Signature at all.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2015-10-22 19:34
I know it's an old thread but then there's always someone searching for relevant information on the subject at any given time, right?
About a year ago I switched from Buffet Festival which I had played for 15 years to Selmer Privilege. A solid pair of B-stock, ridiculously low priced 1st generation of Selmer Privilege. It did have a learning curve, in the first place, keywork-wise. The LH pinkie keys are positioned not where you would expect them to be. The LH Ab/Eb lever is so low that you can easily slide to either E/B or F#/C#.
The design is amazing, certainly causes that WOW effect (sound-wise, of course, but aesthetically, too, love the gold plated rings).
Now. A week ago one of the plastic buttons connecting LH F# lever to the rest of the keywork broke on me, like 15 minutes before the show. I did make it through the show, despite all the stress put on me.
And then my friend and fellow reed player gave me the brand new Uebel Superior to play while my Privilege was in the shop. Now, Uebel has resurrected from the ashes like Phoenix, and has come up with a remarkable line of 4 very different soprano clarinet models, one (but remarkable) bass (Emperior), and its Eb piccolo clarinet is in the late stages of development. That's a very German sound. Paired with a Grabner G11 MP and Vandoren V21 3.5+ reed it sings so warmly yet with a spark, that I got a bunch of compliments from the music director right away. In fact I am going to write a review of that wonderful instrument which was (spoiler) developed by Mr Seegelke (of Schwenk & Seegelke) and has the same bore as S&S Model 3000.
In a couple days I will return the horn to my friend (who is also an artist representative of Uebel in NYC), and I am now thinking what to get for a spare Bb (because what I now got for a spare is Buffet E12...). Alas, the Superior's price is a bit beyond my budget (it sells for about $4800) but Yamaha CSG III (L) is about just as good as Uebel Superior. And then Ridenour Lyrique Libertas is certainly on my map. It is a wonderful instrument that will never crack because it's made of the natural hard rubber (these last two winters in New York City, 2013/14 and 14/15 have been terribly dry, the keywork on a few of my horns kept binding all the time) for the price you can't beat unless you're lucky to get a B-stock clarinet for much less than what it would typically be offered on the market. So yeah, Yamaha CSG III or Ridenour Libertas. Selmer Privilege still gets all my love.
Post Edited (2015-10-22 19:40)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2015-10-22 21:20
Well have you given any thought to the Backun clarinets and accessories? So in some ways you may get a lot better horn, whether it's a Buffet, a Selmer, or a Backun, or Backun accessories, such as a barrel or a bell.
I personally like the Buffets the way they are as stock instruments, but 100's of players switch around.
3 out of 4 the Philadelphia Orch. members are playing on the Backun horns. (I think this is correct)
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2015-10-22 21:24)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2015-10-22 22:02
I did use Backun accessories on my former main clarinet, Buffet Festival, a wide array of barrels and a bell. I still use them, along with Fobes extensions, on my Eb (Normandy 8) and C (Buffet E11) clarinets, and I think they do good there.
As for Selmer, I did get one B stock Backun barrel for it but barely used it two times. I don't think that it adds anything to the already beautiful sound that I enjoy a lot. Selmer Privilege's intonation is better than that on the Buffet, so no need for corrections in that department either. Same refers to Uebel Superior: to me it sounds like a well thought enough instrument to change anything on it.
I haven't had a chance to play Backun clarinets myself, I only heard others playing them. If I had a chance I would like to try them, of course. But from what I heard on virtually all recordings, audio and video alike, there was nothing super appealing to my ear there. I am sure Backun clarinets work and are pleasing and even desirable for some, but I might just not belong to that camp
Post Edited (2015-10-22 22:09)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2015-10-23 04:57
The Selmer recital clarinets I used for years !1997-2004) were sold after alot of problems with the weight and the rather cumbersome quality of playing on them for numerous symphony seasons. Alas ..alot of people really love the tone and it is very pretty but at a general cost to insanity..so in my humble opinion a Selmer Recital is easily beaten by the beauty and density of sound created by a Yamaha CSG..which is also not for all looking for the ping pong Buffet tone.
I have to say I play an early set of CSG clarinets and don't play on anything else...I have tried the II and III versions and felt they did not enhance the design( as most players in North America can get around the slightly low F with no pain. )
Not sure having an extra key to let me down is worth it for a quirky tuning problem.
For now I am quite happy
David Dow
Post Edited (2015-10-23 05:06)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2015-10-23 06:49
David, thank you for your input.
I certainly wouldn't get rid of Selmer (Privilege), I am too much in love with it (the pair), but I can't wait to put my hands on the latest iteration of the German bore Yamaha, CSG III (L). It does look and sound like the right "other" horn for me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2015-10-23 20:28
I am currently playing a 1950 Buffet Pre R13 Bb master bore which has all of the amazing qualities you could want in a clarinet. It must have something to do with the fact that Buffet only made one professional Bb model at that time unlike today where there are many models and so all of the best wood was used for these plus the wood was harvested at the proper maturity and dried for correct amount of time unlike the wood used in current manufacturing. It has the Buffet ringing tone that other manufacturers sought to copy but for some reason were never able to duplicate.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-10-23 21:14
Demitri,
I did not know that the top line Boehm Uebel was designed by Schwenke and incorporates the German bore of the S&S 3000. Are you sure it doesn't have a narrower bore closer to the S&S 1000? In either case, I'll have to try a Uebel. For a spare, don't forget the new updated Yamaha CSVR that has been getting some very good reviews here and elsewhere. In many stores, the CSVR is going for under $3,000 and seems to have some of the best features of Buffets (clarity, sonority) along with more reliable and consistent tuning.
Clarineteer,
I agree that the best vintage Buffets had a ringing sonority that no other clarinet quite equals. The problem is how to find one like the one you have!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2015-10-23 22:45
Seabreeze,
I wouldn't know about the whole Seegelke (not Schwenk) story behind Uebel if not been told by the resellers/ representatives in the US. I was told Superior replicates the bore and some other characteristics of the 3000. I didn't have a chance to compare the two side by side, unfortunately. I have shot a video showcasing a bit of Superior and would be happy to share when I edit it.
For now, here's a quick one, shot on my phone from a music stand in the pit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9iVuI62QDE
Today I have to return it and that's super sad, as I would love to keep playing this wonderful horn along with the Selmer Privilege.
So, RE: the spare.. Thanks for the hint! I have looked up the CSVR, and indeed, it does get high praise, although I realize, not too many have bought it yet to be able to compare opinions, videos / audios, and so on. I dunno. It's rather an existential question: do I specifically want a more "German" sound for a spare or not? I would say, it would be nice— to have a somewhat brighter horn like Privilege (which I do) and then something darker, Uebel Superior / S&S kind of, like CSG III (L)— for a spare or an alternative horn. Or Ridenour Libertas, for less than 60% of the price of Yamaha) that I would have no fear to take to an outdoor performance.
One thing I can't understand - in the CSVR and the majority of Yamaha clarinets: why not make the Ab/ Eb LH lever a default feature on their entire professional line? It has long become such elsewhere. And those who do not want that key, can easily get rid of it.
Thanks again!
Post Edited (2015-10-23 22:50)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Monsterchef
Date: 2015-10-26 06:50
Here's my two cents.
I've been playing a yamaha csg for about two years. Don't think that it is particularly german but it is significantly more mellow/even than R13.
Again, german players have their own styles of music making. It is their style that makes their sound german rather than horns. There is also a massive generational gap between traditional german players like Klocker or Leister compared to newer generations. If you want to sound german, the best way is to imitate their way of phrasing and articulation.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2015-10-26 07:05
@Monsterchef - that's one great point made, but, as it usually goes, I believe the truth is somewhere midway between the two statements.
Also, musically I am way past the point of imitating anyone. The way I would interpret your thought is rather that to play the German way you have to "speak German" on your instrument. And that is a great observation from the field of ethnomusicology / ethnography in general, which is certainly applicable to just any culture and tradition.
Now, going on a fantasy trip, when Scrooge McDuck writes me off a nice phat check someday, I will certainly get myself a pair of boxwood S&Ss and, what to lose, reform Boehm Wurlitzers, too. That's about $50K altogether. After all, you can only buy one really solid violin or harp for the money... or four clarinets.
On a serious note, yes, I believe this is a more correct way to put it, that Yamaha CSG's bore and, respectively, sound tends to be more dark and mellow than your typical French clarinet. But that's exactly what I like to have in my "other" horn.
I still have to try Ridenour's Libertas clarinet before I go for the Yamaha though.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2015-10-26 07:14
I play the Yamaha CSGII L clarinets. They are in my opinion the closest french clarinets that resemble a reform boehm in sound. I've written extensively on them.
I have also ways been crazy about Selmer Signatures. If my CSGIIs ceased to exist, I'd be playing on Signatures next.
I've heard really good things about the Uebel Superior clarinets as well and have wanted to try them out. It is really such a great time in the clarinet world that are more viable options to the R13 which definitely isn't for everyone.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2015-10-26 07:21
@James, well, I prefer to have both - Selmer AND Yamaha If you're persistent and lucky enough, you can get both (B stock, slightly used, in mint condition) much, much cheaper than what they go for new (A stock). Another hint: mainland Europe and UK stores.
RE: Uebel Superior: I played it for a week and made this other video review I am happy to share.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVEJKtqbXsw
I would be very happy to own one but can't justify such expense at this time.
I fully agree with you: we are living in great times, when there are so many truly wonderful choices on the clarinet market, virtually for any budget. (and that's why sometimes some of us want to have an option to play more than just one).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2015-10-26 10:04
I agree, the Recital is a brick. It's a lot of clarinet to hold up...one of my students who came to me after spending a couple years playing only bass clarinet told me he chose it as a new instrument to buy because it felt nice a big...like a bass clarinet. :P
I have Bb/A sets of both the Yamaha CSG and CSVR, and I would really recommend trying both. They each have excellent qualities about them (the intonation is stellar) and it is up to personal preference in terms of sound and response. The CSG to me is more clear sounding, while the CSVR has more texture in the sound, similar to the Buffet R-13. I play the CSG primarily for chamber music, and the CSVR for the occasional band or orchestra gig.
The extra Eb/Ab lever adds cost and weight...and since nearly everyone is able to handle the majority of the repertoire without it, it's not so crucial. A minor health issue related to holding up the instrument was what led me to the original CSG in the first place...an instrument that played better than my R-13 A clarinet, yet was physically lighter.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2015-10-27 02:58
gwie, thank you for your kind advice. Of your description of the various Yamaha models, it is exactly what I heard in some demo videos / audios and reviews / feedback. As an owner of and an active player on one "ringing" instrument that is on the midway between the dark and the bright, and also relatively heavy (Selmer Privilege), I figure, CSG sounds like an instrument to complement my existing horn.
Again, thank you and everyone very much for your input, I really appreciate it!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-10-27 08:32
>> The extra Eb/Ab lever adds cost and weight... <<
It should add very little cost as part of the design and manufacturing (as opposed to adding it to a clarinet without one).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-10-27 17:20
I see your reasoning now; the Yamaha CSVR ringer would, as a tonally close kin to your Selmer Privilege, be somewhat redundant. Judging from your videos and what you say, you have two ringing instruments--the Privilege and the Buffet C clarinet. That Buffet--strengthened by the Grabner G11, the Backun barrel, and the extension, rings like crazy and the tone doesn't break or go strident when you play fortissimo (as it seems to on your Leblanc Opus). To reach the other end of the spectrum, have you tried--on either the CSG or the Uebel Superior--any of the even darker and more covered sounding mouthpieces now on the market, such as the Vandoren Black Diamond BD5, the Fobes Europa, and the various Nick Kuckmeier offerings, including his Play Easy B2, his Soloist M, and his new Matte Inspiration?
Post Edited (2015-10-28 03:35)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2015-10-27 21:40
seabreeze, thank you for your great advice. The older video of me showcasing the C clarinet has the Grabner Custom mouthpiece on it. Here's the video taken just this last Sunday with the G11, this is a moderate / slow / lyrical piece that showcases this setup quite well. Tounging and all the articulation and dynamic nuances are so easy to do on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVdT7iY5eF4
it helps to very nicely darken / cover the sound, and I am thinking of keeping the Custom mpc just a backup, G11 just works so much better for me (aside the two Kaspar style Bb m/pieces I got from Walter. Love them, too)
I would love to try Fobes Europa and Vandoren Black Diamond though.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CEC
Date: 2015-10-27 22:12
Dmitri, you are a wonderful, talented performer. Sorry to go off-topic
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
