 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Steve
Date: 2001-04-10 03:22
I am a 41 yr old baby clarinet student. I love it when I hit the notes, and can find myself rolling on the floor laughing with my kids when I don’t hit the notes. Either way, it’s fun. I am good enough on the tenor recorder that I play in the churches we attend. I expect to continue with the clarinet for many years to come. At this point, however, some things are certain:
--I will not be a professional player; I already hold the most important first chair in the world (Lazy Boy)
--I will not be in a marching band (at least in the rain)
--Money is not the primary factor (or probably even secondary)
I would love to get rid of this noxious rental, and get a great clarinet to learn with. Factors to consider include sound quality (personal yes, but interested in YOUR opinion), ease of play (I’ll take all the help I can get!), and pride of ownership (to be honest!) I am considering a Buffet R13, or a LeBlanc Pete Fountain.
Question:
Am I overlooking other considerations (for me) in a student model or “upgrade” such as the Yamaha 34 other than price? The advice of "try as many as you can get your hands on..." can only go so far.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2001-04-10 04:10
The Buffet R13 is the most popular clarinet amongst American professionals, and has been for quite some time. Personally, I've played Selmer 10G's, Leblanc Concertos, and Buffet R13's professionally, (at least as far as Bb clarinets are concerned.) While they each have their strengths, I prefer the R13 to the others, and am playing one now. I have a Chadash Bb clarinet on order right now, but I think that it would be overkill for a beginner, or most other players. (They sound great, but cost over $4,500 US, and there is an 18-month waiting list to get one.) As for the rest of my clarinets, I play a Chadash A, Noblet C with a Chadash barrel, a LeBlanc D, a Buffet RC Eb, and a LeBlanc bass. I should probably sell my D, along with my soprano sax, since I never use them!
Chris
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Author: Willie
Date: 2001-04-10 04:22
Hey, welcome aboard! If you can play the recorder, you've done better than I. I have the darndest time with the fingerings on it. As for the clarinet, are you going to play in the chuch or a community band? A good student model with a good (not stock) mouthpiece and ligature can sound good but an intermidiate model can sound and play maybe a little better if you're up to it. Since you're new to clarineting, I would recommend staying with the "Big 4", and try to test play several models, mouthpieces to find the right combo for you. With clarinetists, its the search (sometimes perpetual) for the Holy Graille.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-04-10 04:25
If money is not the primary factor and you like R-13, a choice would be a R-13 selected by Greg Smith and customized by Brannen and with Chadash barrel and Greg Smith mouthpiece sold via International Musical Supplier. These are reasons:
1)R-13s are famous (or infamous?) for its quality variations among products(nearly one good among ten?) . Trials are indispensable. But judgement of choice through these trials should be based on sure experiences, good ears, and intonation/tone beauty judging ability. My amateur experience is very doubtful to fulfill these requirements. If a good professional could choose one, it must be far better (than me at least).
2)A set of customization,good mouthpiece/barrel speaks. As to customization Ken Shaw wrote in a posting just below relative to undercut. I read Brannen is famous for its customization 'artisanship'.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-04-10 04:25
If money is not the primary factor and you like R-13, a choice would be a R-13 selected by Greg Smith and customized by Brannen and with Chadash barrel and Greg Smith mouthpiece sold via International Musical Supplier. These are reasons:
1)R-13s are famous (or infamous?) for its quality variations among products(nearly one good among ten?) . Trials are indispensable. But judgement of choice through these trials should be based on sure experiences, good ears, and intonation/tone beauty judging ability. My amateur experience is very doubtful to fulfill these requirements. If a good professional could choose one, it must be far better (than me at least).
2)A set of customization,good mouthpiece/barrel speaks. As to customization Ken Shaw wrote in a posting just below relative to undercut. I read Brannen is famous for its customization 'artisanship'.
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Author: KevinS
Date: 2001-04-10 05:44
Steve,
Congratulations on taking up the clarinet! I'm sure you will get many, many years of pleasure from your new hobby. I'd like to share my experience with you. I purchased a beautiful set of Leblanc Dynamique clarinets about a year ago. They have a large, straight bore similar to the Pete Fountain models of today. They are excellent for blowing wide open jazz, and I still love them. Recently, I got a set of R-13's. There is absolutely no comparison! The R-13 is easier to control, and just generally more pleasurable to play, not to mention the incredible tone! My recommendation; Look at the R-13 line, go for a festival if money is no object. If you're interested in Leblanc, look at the Opus or Concerto models. They are excellent horns that will last you the rest of your life. Whatever you choose, be sure to try several horns and find the one that feels and sounds best to you, as an individual player.
Enjoy!
Kevin
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Author: Eoin McAuley
Date: 2001-04-10 07:12
I am very much in the same situation as yourself: clarinet is a hobby, not a profession for me. I bought a Buffet E13 and am very happy with it. Comparing it with my teacher's RC Vintage, an expensive professional clarinet, it is about 80 - 90% as good in quality at about half the price. The R13 would be a better clarinet than the E13 and slightly more expensive.
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Author: Jean Dagenais
Date: 2001-04-10 11:19
Hello Steve,
First, Congratulations, and I hope that playing the clarinet will bring you a lot of pleasure. I went to a similar process for selecting a clarinet, and today I am playing with a Buffet R-13.
I started with a Yahama student model to get the basis. (about 1 year). I then switched to a Yamaha CX model, made more progress, and this year I got an R-13.
The main reason I went to the R-13 was for the quality of the sound. (My reference is my teacher which plays an R-13 and has an incredible sound).
The selection was not easy as I tried many models (Yamaha, Leblanc, Buffet, Selmer), and then a few clarinet within the same manufacturer.
When I was going to the selection, I kept the same MP, Ligature, and MP as a constant. The reason is that I needed at least one fundamental constant in the selection process.
As I was trying different models, it became clear that there are many factors that nfluence the selection of a clarinet. I was amazed by the difference in sound, tone, blowing resistence, and even the key mechanism of the models.
Some would play very easily, but with a tone I did not like, other models played beautifully, but then they required much more blowing (higher resistence). Other models play well but they seems their key was very hard to play (I learned later that this can easily be fixed).
The selection process is somehow stressful, as I was worry to make a $costly mistake (since I am an amateur). At the store, it was also difficult to appreciate all the subtilities of the different istruments, because I was not used to the acoustic. I decided to do a coarse selection at the store, and then ask to get a few instruments for a few days to test them at home. At home, we have a music room, so it was much easier do a A-B comparison as I used my previous clarinet as a reference.
For the Buffet, I selected 3 models that I played for one week.One RC and two R-13. I also selected a Yamaha SEV. It was not an easy choice because these instruments are very good, and I think it came down to my ability to play one better than the other one.
One my most difficult decision was between the R-13 and the Yamaha SEV. I really like the sound of the Yamaha, and the craftmanshipp was just amazing! On the other hand, it was not really the sound I was looking for, and I finally selected the R-13.
Since this time, I have been enjoying and adjusting my playing techniques to take advantage of this nice instrument.
Based on my experience, these are a few things to consider:
1. It is important to have an idea of the clarinet sound & tone you are looking for. This will simplify the process, as when you try different instruments, you will hear many good and different sound. This really puzzle me for a while!
2. Getting someone you trust to help you to select the clarinet, is a major advantage.
3. If you have the money, get the best instrument you can afford.
4 The proposal by Hiroshi looks very good. It is surely a way to investigate and improve your chances at getting a good R-13.
Good selection!
Jean
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-04-10 14:48
Steve -
If you can afford a pro-quality instrument, you should get one. Even if it pinches your wallet a little, that happens only once, and you get the pleasure of playing something really good every day for years and years.
To pick one out, "rent" a pro player for an afternoon, go to a music store that has a bunch of top quality instruments -- Buffet, Leblanc, Selmer, Yamaha -- and listen like crazy to pick out what sounds and feels best for you.
Mouthpieces that come even with pro instruments are garbage -- especially Buffet. As a relative beginner, you'll do best with a good student mouthpiece from someone who also makes custom mouthpieces. These are much better than the others. Makers include Fobes, Hite, Ridenour and Pyne. These mouthpieces are more forgiving than the professional models and will be better for you for the first couple of years, when you can move up to a hand-made model.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-04-10 14:51
It always amazed me to see how the R13 is a popular instrument in North America.
I know very few people playing it in europe. The standard will be the RC.
From my understanding you are still a beginner, you might to have somebody slightly more qualified to help you pick your instrument. He/she will be able to detect intonation problems, stuffiness of a register, flexibility, ...
The second advice is that you really should try a few of each model. 2 R13's can be VERY different.
Take your time, don't rush your decision. Also, don't look at what's on written on the horn (Buffet is not the only clarinet maker), trust your ears.
Best of luck in your quest ;->
-Sylvain
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-04-10 15:04
The age-old advice of "buy the best you can afford" is still good advice. In the long run you'll have greater success as you progress with a good instrument. It doesn't have to be a professional level clarinet, but should at least be a good intermediate clarinet. The Yamaha 34 is one you can get for a good price, as is the Leblanc Noblet, Buffet E-11 and some assorted others.
Look for a good brand with a good reputation before purchasing something at a local dealer. Have a little knowledge before you go shopping or someone will sell you what they have just because they need to sell it rather than fitting the instrument to your specific needs.
A lot of returning older players who played in high school and want to just "putter" on the instrument and maybe play in a community band buy clarinets like the Leblanc Noblet. You can find a good one for a very reasonable amount of money and you'll have a tough instrument that will last for years and years and still bring a good resale price if you want to step up to something in the professional line.
Leblanc's Pete Fountain is a good instrument, but maybe not right now. Be sure of where you're going on the instrument before you invest that much money.
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-04-10 16:26
Steve,
First of all, congratulations. Secondly, YOU are not middle aged--I AM. I am a 75yr old restart. You are still a youngster. Both of us enjoy playing the instrument and what we think we hear as we play. That's really true. The sound you think you are hearing may not be at all the sound you are producing. I wear hearing aids and am blessed with a false upper plate. Both tend to "hamper" sound production. Take someone along with "good ears" when you shop. Is your "lip" good enough yet that you feel you are producing a good tone? Pay strict attention to what these good folk are telling you and before you start throwing a bunch of money around just remember that a Ford clunker will still get you to the store and back just as well as a "Caddy" or Lexus. It won't look as nice (your pride of possession) but it will do the job. When you feel you are capable of making sound judgements (not that you are not now) based on your feel for the instrument, tone, breath control, etc, etc, then GO FOR IT. I did not get the impression (like some) that money is not an objection to purchase, but just be aware that you have already set your own ground rules in your posting and if you really, really have to have a "trophy" horn, then buy it by all means, if not, then you may never be satisfied with what you do buy.
Bob A
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Author: beth
Date: 2001-04-10 22:17
I'll throw in my 2 cents also...I'm not as knowledgable as others on the board, but I've gone through trying and buying recently my self. I've returned to the fold after being away from the clarinet for over 25 yrs. I deserted the clarinet for the recorder! sidebar: what type of tenor do you play on...what music do you play and do you play with a mixed consort or is it all recorders? I've been playing recorder for about 25 yrs., tenor and alto mostly, alot of baroque and renaisance, with anyone I can get ahold of! Anyway I digress....back to clarinets. With me, cost was a factor, supporting 3 kids in band and trying to buy them their own instruments. So on the advice of many folks I trusted, music teachers etc. I looked for a wooden clari made in the mid 50's. I was looking for a certain sound cause I grew up playing my mom's B & H that she used in the 40's and 50',. but the community band I play with most everyone plays on R-13's. So I decided to find an instrument to blend with other clarinets in band. After much looking around, I bought a Evette & Schaffer Master Model, Buffet, 1956. I've been really tickled with it. My teacher plays an R-13 and we've done comparisons between the two instruments. It doesn't matter who's playing it, listeners can't tell between my E&S or her R-13. I must have lucked into one of those "urban legend" E&S master models from France. I guess the point of the rambling is, if you don't mind buying used and maybe an older clarinet don't overlook some of those gems out there. You may be surprised at what you find. :-) beth
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-04-10 23:09
Check out vintage horns, it's like panning for gold!
I play the Evette & Schaeffer Master Model (search the Archives for details).
Check out John Butler and Dave Spiegelthal for restorations.
Play everything prior to buying!
Getcher teacher on line... it's the best investment.
Take your family out, often by way of an apology.
There is a special place in Heaven for family members of beginning clarinuts.
anji
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-04-10 23:29
Hi, Steve.
Just started this nutty trip last Sep. without ever having a misic lesson, and at the age of 62.
I don't know which I am enjoting more the CL or this BB. The CL is a love-hate relationship - like golf.
I am playing (using the term very loosely) a very nice used Vito and it does very well for me - once I discovered that the fabric ligature I was using was causing me grief for five moths, while all the time thinking it was me. That's the trouble when first starting out - you don't know when it is that you don't know.
I had the opportunity to play my teacher's Buffet R13 at one lesson a short time ago and wow! what a difference. Not in the sound - I can't tell one CL from another by sound (yet) - but the *feel* was so, let's see, user friendly (is that a good term?). Anyway, it was really much smoother to play (being 30 years old may have had something to do with it - broken in, you know).
Like someone else said, ".......the best you can afford." and best to have an experienced player test it for you.
Good luck.
~ jerry
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Author: Jeff Forman
Date: 2001-04-11 01:31
I'd like to add my two cents to the discussion about what horn to buy. Sparing the details, I ended up at a used instrument shop called Music Go Round. I think they are a franchise. They buy, sell and trade used instruments. Anyway, I had a Selmer Signet that I didn't like and went in there and found a Langenus which I fell in love with the minute I starting playing on it. It is a free blowing, rich sounding instrument which has deep, wonderful bass notes. I had a repad job done to it, and for a total of about $325, I have a great horn. My instructor who is a Peabody Institute grad and has both Buffet and Selmer sets of horns, loves the tone of this Langenus and tells me that there is no need for me to ever move up as this is a great piece of wood. And he keeps insisting that it's not the brand you buy, it's the piece of wood. Some pieces of wood (made by Buffet, Selmer of LeBlanc) won't blow as well as other pieces of wood used by the same manufacturers. That's why he keeps telling me that when you buy a clarinet, you must play a bunch of them and decide which you like.
I have tended to agree, and I think pawn shops, flea markets and second hand stores are probably treasure troves for things like this.
Anyway, good luck with the adventure.
Jeff
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Author: Jack Swickard
Date: 2001-04-11 04:57
Steve,
I know what you are saying. I played through elementary, junior high, and high school, skipped it during college and then played in the Army Reserve Band. I am 54 now and decided to take up the clarinet again (about two months ago). Fortunately my wife is very tolerant and insists to her friends that I play very well. I can assure that I do not. But her sweetness is appreciated.
As to what Kind of Clarinet my situation was like yours. I played a Buffet during most of my learning period so that is what I bought. I went to Robert Gilbert to buy a used horn for about $900 and left with a near new gorgeous Buffet Vintage for considerably more. I had a teacher check them out and that particular Vintage sounded better than the rest.
The first week or so I thought the Buffet standard mouthpiece that Bob threw in was fine (he told me I would soon want a better mouthpiece). Now I think I am gathering a collection. I now use a Vandoren B45 with a Vandoren Ultimate Ligature (and have also ordered a setup from Charles Bay).
At any rate I am sure that you will enjoy playing and lessons as the world seems to just melt away.
Best of Luck,
Jack
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-04-11 07:40
I got lucky in my search for my instrument.
I was playing on a Yamaha YCL-20 (plastic student) clarinet for 8 years - all through my junior year of high school. During my Junior year, I play tested many different instruments to find an upgrade - even though it was WAY out of my (or my parent's) price range. I tried the Yamaha 72 CX, 4 or 5 Buffet R-13s, Buffet R13 prestige, Leblanc Concerto and a Selmer 10G (I think). I just loved the Buffet R-13. The prestige was quite a bit more expensive, but I love the wood color to it.
Anyways, I played these instruments as often as I could. Finally, I gave in and called some pawn shops. I knew what to ask for over the phone, and one said they had one for $399! I play tested it in the store. It looked pretty neglected, but nothing that an overhaul couldn't fix. I bought it and haven't looked back since. It was made in 1982 with the serial number 225xxx. I was told that it was a prime year of Buffet clarinet making. Well, it's pretty freeblowing, nice tone, and the wood is beautiful as well. I bought it a new case and case cover. I take care of it as best as I can. Right now it needs a repad, but I'm looking forward to my continued playing on the world's best clarinet - the R-13.
Dave Kinder
P.S. Should I go into advertising?
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Author: Steve
Date: 2001-04-11 20:22
INCREDIBLE!
Thank you all for your excellent insight and advice. This site is truly a gold mine!
It seems the short answer is "no." However, several of yours posts have demonstrated to me that I need to do some things before I drop a chunk of change.
I need to determine if I can tell the difference between clarinets in the first place. Then I need to get an idea of what "sound" I am looking for. If I can't tell the difference, I may as well spend the extra $ on a vacation (my family sure deserves one for their tolerance!).
I will continue to listen to all the clarinet recordings I can find, listen to my instructor, and try to exchange this rental for another (maybe a few times). In the meantime I will keep practicing! When it is time, I'll be sure to get my instructors advice.
Thanks again, and hope to some day add my 2 cents to this board!
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Author: joseph o'kelly
Date: 2001-04-18 16:46
No one can tell you what instrument you should buy. You have to decide that for yourself. The most popular brands are Buffet and their line of R-13s and Festivals, Prestiges, Ect...
LeBlanc makes a good clarinet as well along with the Selmer Paris. While Buffet is most popular with pros. these other companies are gaining recognition. I suggest you check out these companies websites and get familiar with their top models. Then check out the Woodwind and Brasswinds website and have them send you some to try. Your oppinion is the one that counts.
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