 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Matt_Clarinet
Date: 2014-05-02 16:08
A few months ago I started studying with a new teacher, and have been undergoing significant changes to my Clarinet technique. One of the main problems that has been difficult to come up with a solution for a long time is biting into the bottom lip.
When playing just about any notes from high C and above my embouchure seems to require significant assistance from my teeth to hold it steady in place. Not long before commencing studying with my new teacher, I would practice a lot one day, and the next day the moment I started playing there would already be a lot of pain, which would eventually go away after playing for a while, but after a few days it would reach a point where practice was impossible.
Now, since my change of embouchure, I have found that this has been somewhat less of a problem. My teacher has got me playing these high notes again, and I came up with a way of trying not to bite. I hold my lip somewhat outwardly, therefore once it cannot support itself any longer, it won't be able to force down on my teeth. Alas, it turns out that this causes problems with pitch, resulting in all of my high notes being very flat. My teacher also said that my lip started to become in a pouting shape as I got tired.
So I was required to form the correct embouchure and while inserting the clarinet slightly bring the bottom lip up, but not to far. This improved my tone somewhat, but within 1 day of doing this I come out with a mark in my bottom lip where my teeth have pressed in, and am starting to get a sore bottom lip again.
I have tried playing double lip sometimes for remedial purpose, but it seems that when my bottom lip can hardly support notes above the second register without tooth support, how can I do this with my top lip as well which is even weaker?
If anyone has any idea of a solution to this I would be really thankful, because there really hasn't been any way I can figure out a solution in all the years I have been playing the Clarinet.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-05-02 17:56
The "problem" is probably more remedial than the embouchure itself. I too have settled on a "system" that requires more (I'll just say...) energy, and a bit more in the altissimo. Without too much reinventing, I'd say it would be worthwhile investigating 'less open' mouthpieces, and/or slightly less strong reeds.
I sat down with Brad Behn briefly last Summer and he said most clarinetits (me included) bear down on the reed with their embouchure to bring the reed closer to the moutpiece. He designs his mouthpieces (mostly) with the idea of STARTING at that point, so there is no need to squish the reed any further - NO STRESS!!!!
Now I'm not saying that Brad's mouthpieces are your only alternative, only that you could try to approach your set up more in this direction.
And of course you could cover your lower teeth with something to help: dental paper (or whatever it's called), paraphin or leather. I use a thin leather patch (taken from the back of my blue jeans).
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2014-05-02 18:08
Without seeing you, it's very hard to help, but you already have the two most obvious solutions in your initial email.
I would recommend these things:
1- Keep practicing double lip. Tom Ridenour's videos on the subject are quite good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWP22w28Jak
2- It is also likely your problem with getting high notes is not solely your embouchure, but control of your air, try the following exercise from Jessica Phillips: http://youtu.be/kkVls3b0b1c
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-05-02 18:49
Matt:
What's your mouthpiece (has it been customized or not), your reed, and your strength?
I am wondering if you are biting as hard as you are because your mouthpiece may have too open a facing, and/or the strength of reed you're using is too much for you and/or the mouthpiece.
See what Paul said. Playing clarinet should not involve strain. It depletes energy, tenses up the body and particularly the fingers, and makes for forming bad habits.
That said, folded band-aids and cigarette paper can take some of the pain away, but should not be used as a substitute for fixing any underlying problems.
Note: the strength of reed you play is simply a number to me without knowing the mouthpiece you're playing it on. There's world of difference, say, between a Vandoren M13 and a 7JB mouthpiece, particularly as the latter's tip opening is far bigger, more designed for jazz, and takes a much lower number strength reed. The opposite is the case with the former mouthpiece.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-05-03 23:02
Matt, I'm going to give you an entire different opinion based on my life and I've played professional for 51 years. Check my website if you want to see what I've done and where I've been. So here goes.
You many never be able to completely solve that problem and it doesn't have to be a problem. I've known many professional players that use a teeth guard when they play, including me. As a student my lip would bleed often from practicing so much but I would just keep going. Sometimes I need a day off the heal. I had my dentist file down my bottom teeth a bit and he made me a protable guard but I didn't really like it so I would only use it when practicing a long time. As with you, I tried everything but no matter what I did I didn't not like the result with my tone, control and pitch. I tried placing the teeth at a different part of the lip, taking more or less mouthpiece in my mouth, softer, harder reeds. I wanted the tone I got when my lip got sore. Someone said I probably just have a strong bite, well yea. So I just always played with a teeth guard and it completly solved my problem. The last 30 or so years I've been using "floral tape", I buy a role of white from a store that sells flower designs, hobby shop or a florist. I cut a piece so I can fold it three times, you choose what's most comfortable. It sticks to itself but there's no glue. I form it to my lower teeth and play and play and play. I used to only use it when practicing for the last few decades I began using it always because I got so used to it. My lip doesn't hurt, doesn't bleed and I have complete control in my playing. Some people use different materials. Our principal player of the BSO used to use pieces of old T shirts, but lately he uses "surgical tape". Anything that works for you works. The idea is to play the best you can and be comfortable doing it. You may have a thin lip, sharp teeth or a strong jaw. So what.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-05-04 08:52
After all the elegant answers I hate to offer such a simple solution, but for the altissimo and upper clarion, I just squeeze the B45 or 5JB to death with my pursed lips.
Biting never comes into it. In fact, I play a lot with no teeth on the beak at all - but it isn't a double-lip embouchure.
My lower and upper lips are not rolled back to cover my teeth but are in front of them and tightly hold the mpc, if that makes any sense.
B>
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2014-05-05 06:56
One reason biting is a difficult problem is that it means more than one thing. The lower jaw has quite a few muscles that can move it in different pertinent ways. To name several, it can open and close rotationallly, it can clench up non-rotationally, and it can jut forward. All these muscles are used in forming an embouchure, but too much of any, or unwanted motion of them, can create a biting issue in terms of hampering vibration. Not to mention sore lips.
In my case I finally realized that a significant part of my own biting was due to jutting my jaw forward, which for years I hadn't even noticed I was doing - I had always been thinking only about "up/down" or "open/close" control.
Another thing to be aware of is that your lower jaw moves a lot all the time, for all kinds of reasons that normally (when you're not playing clarinet) you probably don't even notice. Some of that may overlap into playing, for example, a forceful, intense musical phrase might cause an emotional response of tightening the jaws, and that isn't really appropriate to what you are trying to do. So, biting can be intermittent, and therefore harder to catch and correct.
The other thing that happens, at least with me, is that the jaws unconsciously tend to try to steady the clarinet in response to it being wiggled by fingers. I catch it happening in complex fingering passages, especially involving my right pinky and rh side keys. Again, this tightening is probably not appropriate to getting the desired sound. I'm trying to gradually wiggle the clarinet less, and that seems to be helping.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-05-05 08:36
Bruno wrote:
> In fact, I play a lot with no teeth
> on the beak at all - but it isn't a double-lip embouchure.
> My lower and upper lips are not rolled back to cover my teeth
> but are in front of them and tightly hold the mpc, if that
> makes any sense.
>
Tom, it makes perfectly good sense. I would only disagree that it isn't a "double-lip embouchure." If your lips and not your teeth are controlling the mouthpiece top and bottom, I'd call it double lip regardless of where your upper teeth are.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-05-05 13:20
I counter disagree.
If your lips are controlling your the mouthpiece, and your lower lip IS over you lower teeth, THAT'S A CORRECT SINGLE LIP EMBOUCHURE !!!!!!
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-05-05 16:49
I must admit that I've never understood the biting thing. I just don't see the difference between Tom R's method of setting your mouth position and pushing the mp into it.......and putting the mp in your mouth and closing it. Semantics I guess. If you held the mp with both your top and bottom teeth and no lip support....that's what i'd call biting.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-05-05 17:48
Paul said:
I counter disagree.
If your lips are controlling your the mouthpiece, and your lower lip IS over you lower teeth, THAT'S A CORRECT SINGLE LIP EMBOUCHURE !!!!!!
..........Paul Aviles
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But my lower lip is NOT over my lower teeth - You see, Paul, I pay no attention to "correct" textbook positions of anything relating to my embouchure. I concentrate on playing bel canto clarinet - the sound is all! I pay no attention to what I have to do to achieve it.
Lip under, lip out, lip in, how much mpc I take in, tongue back, forward, up, down, I simply don't pay any attention to those parameters. For me, music is all about listening, and hearing. I'll do whatever I have to to get the sound that's in my head. It's all on automatic drive.
Try it sometime. You may be surprised.
Bruno>
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-05-05 18:57
Dear Bruno,
Yes, I am surprised. The most loyal double lippers have that little bit of extra support of the teeth under their lips to stablize the horn.
You have "lips of steel" my friend!
Oh and Bob,
The jaw muscles aid in tearing through meat and reducing nuts to digestable granules - THAT'S BITING.
................Paul Aviles
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