 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-04-21 17:19
A couple of months ago "Tony F" suggested that beeswax on the back of my reeds might extend their play in upper altissimo (I've had a long standing problem with top notes not lasting through a play session).
When beeswax proved difficult to obtain in my usual routine, I tried a couple of alternatives- chapstick and paraffin, they were no help. Finally I ordered beeswax from an eBay seller, and a couple of days ago it arrived. (99 cents per stick plus $1.59 shipping- I bought 2 sticks- looks like even 1 would be a 20 yr supply.) And I began applying to the back of my reeds.
The improvement was immediate. I'm still working with Vandoren blue 2.5's. With the beeswax, any reed that starts off playing B6-C7 ![[B6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/b6.gif) ![[C7]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c7.gif) without a fight- keeps playing them indefinitely, with little or no degradation. 2 days now, 5 or 6 different reeds have shifted how they behave. Thank you, Tony F!!!
I am not happy with my application process so far, rubbing on the back of the entire reed. Beeswax is sticky and tends to clump in places, hard to smooth out, and hard not to damage tip of reed (very tip is most important location maybe). And since I've applied all the way to the bottom of the reed, now they're sticking to the mouthpiece. Probably I'm using way more than needed, over time I will work my way down to the minimum zone and thickness to get the job done, and how often it must be reapplied. I also think it would be easier if applied warm or hot, details to be determined.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-04-23 09:45)
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2014-04-21 18:09
VERY interesting. Please keep us informed. I also ended up with a 50 year supply of beeswax (2 sticks) because I was advised to apply it to the very tops of the tenon on the upper joint of my clarinet to keep it from expanding and being difficult to remove from the barrel or adjust the tone. Good stuff.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-04-22 19:29
You might find beeswax candles fairly easily compared to the bulk item. Being so stiff I would think that applying it to the tip might damage the reed structure. Is it possible the wax is a correction for a non-flat Lay.?
Bob Draznik
Post Edited (2014-04-22 19:32)
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Author: William
Date: 2014-04-22 20:56
Bee's wax improving your B6's.........there must be a joke in there somewhere.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-04-22 22:08
If you and others report consistent results Stan, I'd be interested in hearing people's theories on why this might be the case from a materials science standpoint.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-04-22 22:25
Russ- I'd bet dimes to donuts it's what Tony F said his teacher told him- that the beeswax seals out excess moisture. Especially since in my case, without the beeswax, I can restore lost high note play temporarily by squeezing moisture out of the tip.
What I now have to determine is how much is needed and how to apply easily and safely. Since I've already confirmed that a large application is effective, next I'll try a teeny tiny trifling amount. Whether that works or doesn't, I'll know which way to go after that. Standard engineering style binary search.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-04-22 23:07)
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2014-04-23 02:24
fskelley states that squeezing the water out of the tip temporarily restores high altissimo performance for a given reed. Perhaps the additional mass of the water absorbed at the tip is the cause of the reed no longer performing at the extreme highs; the sealing prevents the tip from absorbing water and thus increasing mass which would reduce the ability to oscillate at high frequencies. Not yet proved by my own experiments, just a quick opinion.
Jerry
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-04-23 02:43
When I mentioned this thread to a friend she pointed out that it could cause problems for anybody who might be allergic to honey. The pollen that causes the reaction is present in both honey and beeswax, so be aware of this.
My teacher of many years ago did this to prevent water build-up in the reed. He allowed the warmth of his hands to soften a small lump of wax enough to enable him to rub some onto his finger tip and then he wiped it onto the flat face of the reed while laying the reed flat, working from the heel to the tip. He only put a very light film of wax onto the reed, enough to feel but not enough to see.
If you rub a piece of wax on a flat surface such as a piece of glass and then rub the flat side of the reed against this surface you'll be able to transfer wax without the risk of damaging the reed. Then use your warm finger to smooth it out. Think of it as waxing a very small surfboard.
Tony F.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-04-23 09:54
I remembered that we had somewhere a granite cheeseboard, so I dug it out and experimented with it. I dunked it in hot water until it was thoroughly warmed through and found that I could rub the wax on in a thin smooth film. I then rubbed the flat side of the reed on the waxed surface and got a light even coating of wax transferred to the reed. Then I rubbed the flat side of the reed on a sheet of printing paper to get rid of the surplus. It seems to work OK.
Tony F.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-04-23 10:31
Wow, that sounds easy. And I've got a sample floor tile I used for reed finishing before I got Tom's ATG glass block, should be just right. Thanks for the instructions!
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-04-23 10:58
The old way of making a cane reed reasonably water proof was to , firstly burnish the cut of the reed , that is , all the cut right down to the tip by placing the reed on a suitable piece of plate glass and then , using a round pen such as an "Artline' pen, firmly rub the reed cut all over. This closes up the tiny tubes that are throughout the reed mass. Be careful not to allow the reed to overhang the glass as you will split it.
I forget what those tiny tubes are called but you can easily see the reason why a cane reed becomes waterlogged by placing the cut section of a reed in a glass of water and then placing the back end of the reed in your mouth and forcing air into these tiny tubes. You will see very small bubbles of air come to the surface of the cut. Burnishing the cut will close off these tiny tube openings.
Finally , to complete the process of water proofing a reed , use some butcher's paper , which is actually the same as newspaper paper , but without the poisonous ink, place this on the plate glass and then rub the table side of the reed on this to give it a polish.
Hey presto, you will have a reasonably good waterproofed reed. No need to play around with bee's wax.
BJV
"The Clarinet is not a horn"
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Author: Wes
Date: 2014-04-24 09:50
Any substance you add to your cane reed will likely deaden it's performance, especially a wax.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-04-25 19:27
Certainly the added wax changes the response. In fact I've found a couple of my newly waxed reeds had balance issues and I had to scratch off tiny clumps near the tip to fix. Tony's hot wax and paper polish methods should make a smoother more uniform layer next time I treat a new reed.
I am very happy that my waxed reeds are far more consistent over a play session than they were before waxing. And I can ATG adjust after waxing to get the play characteristics I want. At this point I have 6 Vandoren blue 2.5's in my working set- varying in age from 20 to 72 days (I keep an Excel chart LOL). 2 or 3 of those are fabulous, and the others are pretty nice, with some faults that I may yet work out. Would be really super to have 4 or 5 or 6 winners all at the same time. And I still haven't tried Gonzalez, or new Rico yellow box, or fancier Vandorens (white/black/pink whatever). Too many choices, too much $.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-06-12 02:20
Another update...
I am now incredibly sparing with my beeswax (I guess I have a 100 year supply). I have part of a sheet of blank certificate paper (Southworth Fine Parchment Paper with a texture) sitting on top of my 6x6" ceramic tile sample. When I want to apply beeswax to a reed, I rub a small amount onto part of the paper (like coloring with a crayon, you can feel it but not see it). Then I rub the reed on that part of the paper for a few seconds, generally only the top half inch of the back, and the very tip of the front. And then I polish the same parts of the reed on an unwaxed part of the paper. The result is a thin film of shiny wax on part of the reed.
Such a trifling amount... but it does make a difference. It restores the top end, and I think (!) preserves it. It is possible the paper polishing would do this even without the beeswax- haven't tried it. Sure beats clipping the reed, which can be a dead end street.
So, even though I have TRIED to simplify my process and drop the beeswax routine- so far it remains essential and helpful.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-06-13 15:03
I'm wondering if rubbing the reed on waxpaper would work as well. OR using paraffin instead of beeswax. Altho I'm a firm believer in "ironing"/polishing the back side of the reed I'm suspecting that rubbing the top cut side of the reed with anything that would "close" the "pores" would damage the tubular structure and shorten the reed life.
Bob Draznik
Post Edited (2014-06-13 15:07)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-06-13 17:39
I don't actually rerub my paper with the beeswax block every time, once is maybe good for 2 or 3 reed "treatments". I'm working super super sparingly. Rather than trying to do just one treatment to a given reed, I'm applying little bits as I go as I think are needed. Kind of the same way I ATG adjust a little at a time instead trying to do it all at once.
Also, I started off just doing wax on the back side. Wax on the front was more of a careful experiment, and I apply only to the very tip. But when I polish, it gets spread a little ways down. And it helps the play.
Be aware that after you wax a reed, even this little bit- it will need a bit of blowing to recover and restabilize, don't panic at the first toot.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: William
Date: 2014-06-13 19:09
Ever try soaking your reeds in vodka--it may not help much, but after a while, you won't care...............
Seriously, I solved my cane reed problems by switching to synthetics, presently vintage Forestones (for all my clars and saxes). Main advantages, they require no breaking in time nor fancy adjustments and they maintain their resilience throughout the entire gig--and far beyond. And, they are always ready to "go" with no pre-moistening needed. My Forestones let me play the music without having to play the reed.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-06-17 14:40
Carnauba wax can be a good alternate for beeswax.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-06-17 20:01
Good thinking, BobD. Carnauba might even be superior as it forms a hard water-resistant coating.
Tony F.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2014-06-17 20:19
I've heard of people who make their own cork grease using beeswax. They get the right consistency by nukin' it in a microwave to easy in application. I still think buffing the back of a new reed on glass/plexiglass until it is smooth makes the read last longer and speak better. YMMV.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-08-22 16:43
And for now- I've abandoned the beeswax and my regimen is very very simple. I do occasionally rub wet reeds with my fingertip against glass to squeeze out moisture. That seems to renew their play (high notes and such) just as well without wax as with it.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-08-22 16:56
Of late I have been using Forestone clarinet reeds but also using some cane reeds on clarinet and saxes treated with olive oil and lip balm. Seal the entire reed including the heal and sides. I apply over a few practice sessions( perhaps 3 or 4) Rub them until there is no excess. They sound good to me and respond well. With the sealing I expect more consistency during weather changes.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-08-22 22:32
I can only tell you what Stanley Hasty once said at a reed master class. Never put anything on the surface of a reed that will clog the poors. He was refering to a student that asked about sealing the pores with new paper print. I'm in agreement totally. Don't put anything on a reed. Want your reeds to last long and play better, read my website pages on breaking in, caring for and preventing reeds from warping.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-08-23 02:16
I use Carnauba wax rather than beeswax. It's "foodsafe" and not sticky.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-08-23 04:08
Hi Bob, I assume food safe means non toxic?
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2014-08-23 04:26)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-08-23 05:32
My question to Ed with respect to both him and Mr Hasty is why not clog up the pores? If I can seal a reed with something non toxic without losing significant tonal quality and response why not do it?
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-08-23 16:13
Yes, Arnold. I hesitate to say "FDA Approved" because I'm not sure but it is used in contact with many food products. Regarding closing up the "pores" I don't know that any one person's opinion is better than another. It appears that we wet reeds before playing to make the tip more resilient but I don't know if that's what it does.
I am using a solid stick of Carnauba wax to rub the area that my upper lip contacts because it helps keep my lip from becoming irritated. I know that works. I do believe the reed tip suffers fatigue damage with time and loses its resiliency. "Just b ecause you don't have proof doesn't mean something is not true"
Bob Draznik
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-08-23 18:46
Ed , why do you think Stanley Hasty recommended not clogging the pores of a reed? I'm not being critical of you or him. I have read about Stanley Hasty and his teaching ( in a doctoral dissertation). If he were alive today I would take the fastest train, plane or whatever to have a lesson from him. I'm not particularly looking for science here. Perhaps he said he tried it and it didn't work or it's messy or whatever.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2014-08-23 21:19)
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Author: vparker86
Date: 2014-10-23 07:01
I actually apply burts bees Chapstick to my reeds. It's weird but they last longer and I usually run my reeds on paper to smooth the back pores, but now I apply the wax as well and I have reeds that respond much quicker!
Victoria
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