 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-04-19 03:16
So I decided to try one of Tom Ridenour's hard rubber clarinets knowing full well that I had several days to try it without obligation. This it my fourth day with the clarinet and I must say it is great. I just got done playing it back to back with an R13 and I definitely prefer the sound and feel of the Lyrique. When I play with good support and steady embouchure the clarinet plays very well in tune. I was surprised at how the blowing resistance is even throughout all registers. and also the tone is great top to bottom.
I have followed the posts and videos about Tom's clarinets and I was skeptical about a few things. I didn't think it could be so easy to produce (even a soft dynamics) the altissimo register. But I was wrong. I didn't think hard rubber (because of what I've been "taught") could sound as good or better than wood. But I was wrong. I thought that ( because of what I read here from other clarinetists) the key work wouldn't be good and I would have to have several keys bent. But I was wrong. The clarinet fits my hands very well.
I decided to experiment and put the R13 bell on the Lyrique. That was a mistake. The sound was not at all the same. It lost the dark sweet tone that I liked so much. Tom's design from barrel to bell belong together. Everyone should at least give these clarinets a try. Now if only I had a C , A , Eb , and bass...
AAAClarinet
p.s. I am in no way affiliated with RCP. But they are a pleasure to do business with.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-04-19 05:53
I assume you purchased the Libertas?
The Libertas is my secret weapon. In a way, I don't know if I want EVERYONE playing one of Tom Ridenours instruments ... I like the playing field being un-level to my advantage. I guess that's just selfish. Beginners and old men need all the help they can get! And, I'm not a beginner, although I still think my best days might be ahead of me ...
Tom
Post Edited (2014-04-19 17:12)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-04-19 06:15
Oh! And you mentioned an E-flat!
I emailed Ted Ridenour about this about a year ago and I don't think Tom is planning an E-flat soprano. Not enough interest and apparently inherently difficult to design.
The E-flat is terribly missed in Wind Ensembles nowadays. Many community and high school bands don't use them. But well played, they add that beautiful dash of pepper to the ensemble sound and help cement the flutes and clarinets together.
Tom
Post Edited (2014-04-19 17:14)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2014-04-19 08:26
I bought one of his Lyrique A clarinets for my school program, $1200.
The intonation is excellent, the instrument's response and resistance is very consistent throughout all the registers, and perhaps the only issue I've seen is that the keywork isn't quite as smooth as a good Buffet or Yamaha.
However, the instrument has been constantly on loan to students since I purchased it over a year ago, and has been very popular. Some of my students who have used professional model A Clarinets from Buffet and Leblanc actually prefer how the Lyrique plays over their own A's!
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-04-19 17:10
The Lyrique Libertas has very good keywork, and, the plating is excellent.
I am waiting for an un-pigmented hard rubber instrument with gold plated keys. White gold and rose gold have silver and copper respectively alloyed with the pure gold. I don't know how the silver or copper would react with the sulfur in the rubber ...?
Wonder if they could use a particularly hard alloy of aluminum for clarinet keys? They could brush and leave a natural finish to the keys, and the weight reduction would be great!
Tom
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2014-04-19 23:56
Am I correct that the Libertas is not offered with silver-plate keys? My chemistry doesn't do well with nickel----
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2014-04-20 00:53
Correct. Only their G1, which I believe Ted said they may discontinue, uses silver plating because it is their only non-hard rubber clarinet (except for maybe the lowest end student model that is still listed on the site).
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Author: Ben Shaffer
Date: 2014-04-20 02:55
Just curious, does Tom make his Clarinets?
If he doesn't who does make them and where are they made?
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-04-20 06:03
Clarinets made across the pond, somewhere. I know he does all his design in Texas and sends the "build documents" to his manufacturers.
I once asked Ted if they had checked with US companies for production. The costs were just too high to meet RCP's target price to the customer.
I'd pay a little more to have them made here in the good old US ... but not as much as the French and Canadian made instruments. Six to eight grand is just too much for many players ... unless you made a handsome living playing the clarinet.
I think someday, with the advances in technology and especially the reduction in cost of CNC machining, smaller companies like RCP can "do their own thing" for a relatively modest outlay of money and space. That would be cool!
Tom
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-04-20 06:18
Not about labor costs. It's an issue of material. SE Asia is where a large % of the worlds hard rubber is made and manufactured. If American factories made clarinets out of hard rubber.....we'd collaborate with them and make clarinets.
Clarinets are all made to someone's specifications by machines. If you want something done well though it has to be hand finished and hand finished by someone who knows what their doing. Tom, most people would agree, knows what he's doing when it comes to finishing clarinets.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: GaryH
Date: 2014-04-20 06:31
I'd prefer to buy American made rather than something built in China. There just aren't that many instruments made in America anymore.
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-04-20 06:33
The other issue is cooperation. Even with Toms track record at Leblanc, clarinet manufacturers simply showed no interest or flat out refused to work with him.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-04-20 08:02
Ted:
I guess Ford wouldn't want to build Cadillacs for GM if it hurt sales of Lincolns.
And that's true about depending on machines for the finest details. As far as CNC machining, I'd say "trust but verify" ... tooling wears out, machines hiccup and human operators make mistakes as well. Humans have to check the machines, that check the machines, that check the machines ...
Remember, the prime mirror(s) for the Hubble telescope was precisely ground by machines, except a human made a mistake which caused inaccuracy. Apparently the mirror wasn't or couldn't be properly checked after grinding and coating. We had to fly another mission to add some optical correction ... after viewing the horror of a billion dollar screw up.
I still have hope we will see an RCP clarinet, totally made in Texas (or even in Little Rock, Arkansas ... Cool!) Optimism or naivety? Of course, the way things could go someday, Texas might disqualify for using the label "Made in the USA" on it's products!
Tom
Post Edited (2014-04-20 09:18)
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-04-20 19:06
Want a 3D printer- made guitar ? They can be done by copying. Maybe clarinet some day.
richard smith
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-04-20 19:49
I stand corrected by Ted Ridenour on RCP's not using USA manufacturing ... I misunderstood. The big issue was not expense. Apparently, attitude and cooperation of manufacturing resources was the blocking factor. I understand that RCP's instruments arrive at their facility with no undercutting of the tone holes, no final bore adjustments and the mechanics not completely adjusted to professional standards. So, the final details gets the attention of a human with the unusual duality of experienced engineer and artist.
Also, think about this: Has there ever been a truly professional clarinet designed AND produced completely in the USA? Maybe a small boutique company? I think some pro oboes have been made here (2nd oboe in ASO uses a US made horn) ... and I guess flutes, brass instruments and some other stuff. But clarinets? Not sure ... Interesting.
As far as 3D printing ... Backun has "printed" barrel prototypes. That's really neat! Mouthpieces anyone? Purchase the design files and a $600.00 printer and make your own! I don't think hard rubber lends itself to this technology ... unfortunately.
I really think we will see a lot of small items printed on demand, in our own homes. The money will be in the design files and the plastic cartridge replacements.
Gosh, it would take a couple of gallons of plastic to print a Les Paul!
Tom
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-04-20 20:07
My guess is that 100 years from now, the clarinets that were personally set up by Tom will be at a premium, even TR147's and certainly Ariosos, but the pedigree will always be the issue. And some techs will claim to be able to tell which ones have his signature touch, and perhaps do some kind of certification which raises the value. And maybe R13's of this era will be a dime a dozen? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
Tom should be signing his initials inside the bore somewhere, or some other secret code only he recognizes. Trouble is, if that became understood and raised the value of a horn, future fakers would be all over it. Maybe I watch too much Antiques Roadshow and Pawn Stars.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-04-20 20:20)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-04-20 21:11
I believe some of the Selmer series 10 clarinets made it through a finishing shop, possibly managed by Ralph Morgan. These would be more valuable (and better) than others. And, I guess some Buffets, especially those that were selected by and adjusted by Moennig would be more valuable. The challenge is record keeping and verification. I don't think some of the "finishers" realized the historic value of what they were doing at the time.
Yeah, intelligent selection of a wood clarinet and proper post factory work can make the difference between mediocre and excellent. Although, I think a few truly great instruments accidentally sneak past the scrutiny of "pickers".
The real problem is that play testing and selection by the end user should be performed on an instrument AFTER it goes through the hands of an skilled technician on this side of the pond. Things change during packing, transport and storage (especially on wood instruments) ... and most factory adjustments are performed relatively quickly. Sometimes, just a leaky pad or a bumper cork too thick can spoil the experience of selection, and an otherwise great instrument will be cast aside. I once was made a super deal on a new Yamaha E-flat by a local music store. Well, the thing was so badly out of adjustment, that I had to decline. I told the store manager that the instrument needed repair before I could tell anything about how it played or tuned. I just got a shrug ... I guess it eventually went to a less discriminating customer.
Tom
Post Edited (2014-04-21 18:26)
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