 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2014-03-17 08:59
Greetings!
I was curious as to whether or not wooden intermediate clarinets do actually make a difference in sound or if I was just hearing things. I currently play on a Vito by LeBlanc and have had it for 4 years (Since I was in elementary school) paired with a 5RV Lyre. Now I am getting ready to go into High School, skipping 9th grade band into 10-12 by request of director and I have an Honor Band concert coming up in May which I am in first chair.
I have recently been trying wooden clarinet such as the E11 and have been told that I do sound better, but reading some of the forums here and other places, I have heard that a different horn will not make a difference in tone. Is that statement something that is universally true, or only true in certain situations?
Here is an example of my playing (Recorded by iPhone): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IybDVxq-quM
Post Edited (2014-03-17 09:02)
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2014-03-17 11:38
Greetings young player,
Whether the clarinet is made of metal, wood, hard rubber, or plastic does not matter. A great player will sound great regardless. What does influence the sound is the mouthpiece/reed combination.
In high school, you will play outdoors in not so good weather. Wood doesn't like temperature changes. It expands and cracks. Leaving a wooden clarinet in the sun is asking for trouble.
I suggest you keep your Leblanc clarinet but replace your mouthpiece with a custom made one by Grabner, Smith, or others. Buy the best reeds you can.
My band and I played sixteen concerts last year, mostly outdoors. My bass clarinet is a plastic Yamaha. I use a Pomarico crystal mouthpiece and the combination works well.
Mike Blinn
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Author: gemini-clarinet
Date: 2014-03-17 12:07
Your solo sounded good. Nice to see posts here from other clarinet players in Tucson!
Which High School will you be attending and who is your director? I know several of them in town.
If you will be required to participate in marching band, definitely use your plastic clarinet. For concert band, a wood clarinet will most likely make a considerable difference. I used my plastic Bundy clarinet for marching band and outdoor concerts when I was in school.. My first wood clarinet was a Selmer Signet, which I loved. I am not sure if they still make them or not. (This was back in the 80s).
Good luck and keep up the good work.
Post Edited (2014-03-17 12:09)
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2014-03-17 12:28
Thank you for your kind words on my solo! I will be going to Mountain View High School, directed by Ms. Rogers. Also, I will be keeping my plastic clarinet for marching band for sure, but I'm wondering if it will be a worthwhile investment to get an Intermediate-Pro level clarinet, as I feel my current instrument is somehow inhibiting my abilities.
On a side subject, for those of you who do listen to the solo, what can be improved in the tone?
Post Edited (2014-03-17 12:30)
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-17 10:01
If you can afford it, and you're going to play the clarinet for the rest of your life, skip the "intermediate" stuff. Go for the pro model, even a used one would be good. Better get it now while the parents are paying for it haha
I bought an intermediate Buffet E12 and now I keep thinking I should've gotten an R13 instead.
Also look at Ridenour Lyrique clarinets. They have two models 576bc for about $1000 and Lyrique Libertas, their newer model for around $1500-1600. Both are professional clarinets. I have the Libertas too. They're made of hard rubber so you can play it outside without fear of cracking. Try it out - they have a 5 day return policy (you pay for the shipping). Perhaps before that, you should try an R13 at a shop first.
I'm sure there are other very good pro clarinets out there, but I'm just a newbie and I don't know much.
Post Edited (2014-03-17 14:22)
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-03-17 14:53
@OP
> but reading some of the forums here and other places, I have heard that a
> different horn will not make a difference in tone. Is that statement
> something that is universally true, or only true in certain situations?
this is something you'd hear people arguing and it is generally not true but can be true under some circumstances. Even the same model different instruments may sound different b/c they were adjusted/set up differently. It could be a very small difference, or if there is a small leak somewhere it could be a very big difference.
Now with respect to different models there are instruments which will sound very different, but also many horns are designed with the same sound in mind and end up sounding very similar. If you have a chance try different horns, record yourself with good mic and pick the one which you like the most. If not sure ask your teacher to help you.
> Whether the clarinet is made of metal, wood, hard rubber, or plastic does
> not matter. A great player will sound great regardless. What does
> influence the sound is the mouthpiece/reed combination
@Mike
the jury is still out there.. (and material does matter!). This is coming from reaming plastic "try" barrel, and then replacing it with rosewood one.. and with respect to " A great player will sound great regardless" yes, but he/she could still sound differently
agree in terms of impact on sound the most important are:
1) player
2) reed/MPC
3) instrument
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-03-17 15:44
>Go for the pro model, even a used one would be good. >
A used pro model can be a huge bargain with no compromise on quality. Lots of families buy gorgeous clarinets for kids who quit about a nanosecond later. Typically the families will hang onto the instruments for a few years (or decades ...) before giving up, but eventually those beautiful instruments go on sale in music stores, auctions, flea markets, junktiques stores and even yard sales. I know because as an amateur and a cheapskate, I don't feel right about paying for anything new that I can get used -- and I've ended up with much better clarinets and saxophones than I've got any right to play at my mediocre level of skill. Of course there are also plenty of used clarinets in wrecked condition out there in the wild, but it sounds as though you've had enough experience with playing the clarinet to spot a bad one. Besides, nosing around out there is fun -- and addictive -- fair warning!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2014-03-17 15:45)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2014-03-17 16:19
"...A used pro model can be a huge bargain with no compromise on quality..."
Indeed. And a used pro model can also need a huge amount of work done on it, making its real value when you buy it in a bad state, close to zero.
I think it is unwise to generalise. Buyer beware.
On the other hand, expect faults that need attention in a brand new pro model too.
Post Edited (2014-03-17 12:20)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-03-17 16:49
First off I'd like to say that your playing is very musical. That's a big deal.
Secondly, you state that you sense your instrument is holding you back. There IS a lot to that. Let your instincts continue to guide you.
As for improvements, I'd say you could use MORE air or rather more efficiently generated and focused air. Engage your core (abdominal muscles) to actively PUSH your air out. Even at low volume levels a better use of air creates more resonance in the sound. It also seemed that a few notes got thinner at the end (is that "pinching" from nerves or running out of air?). And finally the pitch was a bit high in spots, certainly something a bit more work with a tuner can cure easily enough.
I vote for a better clarinet (whatever that turns out to be) based on finances and raw desire.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-03-17 14:13
I agree with Paul: "More AIR!" was my dominant thought while listening to your solo. With the uneven response and pitch I heard in the upper clarion and altissimo, it sounded as if your reed was either too hard, had been in service too long, or wasn't a good match for your mouthpiece. More air support and better reeds would add much-needed resonance and presence to your tone.
Your phrasing and general musicality gets two big thumbs up from me. Give yourself a pat on the back!
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-17 15:17
I listened to your video. You have passion. Now, we need to match that with improved technique.
What mouthpiece are you playing, and are you studying privately? Your sound is nice. But the fuller richer sound you can achieve is in part about changes that occur from the barrel up (including you) AND down, as my predecessors here have commented about.
On the whole, I think wood instruments will play better than plastic, but it's important that you know WHY on think that: spoiler alert--it's not necessarily because they are made of wood.
I'm not going to say that the material used to make a clarinet doesn't matter. What I am going to say is that craftsmanship of the material, independent of what that material is, goes a long way, as does of course mouthpiece, barrel, embouchure, as mentioned, in producing quality sound.
All other things equal, more expensive wood clarinets than plastic ones, tend to get more workmanship applied to them, which is part of the reason they sound better.
Also as suggested above, if you are at the E11 spending range, I cannot impress upon you the importance of trying Ridenour's hard rubber clarinets. First, they're far better outdoors than wood, second, they may very well be BETTER INDOORS than wood--and that's coming from a Buffet R13 player for over 30 years.
These clarinets free blowing abilities and not only excellent but stable tuning are worth not only a look, but purchase.
If you need to look for used instruments because of the costs, IMHO, that's 10 times more the reason to reach out to the Ridenour men to see if they have any used instruments (spoiler alert #2: they don't have many--as people love their clarinets). Maybe they have clarinets that they reserve for trials that they'll see you used. Maybe you can buy a used Ridenour in the open market and have Tom (Ridenour), at fair cost, make it like new for you. Please prearrange this if you choose such a route.
Ridenour instruments quality may only be surpassed by Ted/Tom's integrity in not selling a clarinet that wasn't first rate, without--if such a Ridenour even exists (they are remarkable consistently excellent)--saying so up front.
(I am connected to Ridenour in no way, shape, or form.)
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2014-03-17 19:18
Again, thank you for your kind comments! Being musical is something I ALWAYS strive to do. I don't like fast music for the simple reason that each note has less chance to tell a story. I don't want to just play "hard and impressive" things, I would rather speak through my instrument and tell a story (Which is why I am working my best to get not just a good tone, but a beautiful one).
Also
The unevenness and as well as sounding like it needs more air comes from three things. 1. I was playing V12 3's on a 5RV, not necessarily the best match. 2. The reed was also overplayed, and quite old. And 3. The tone generated from my student model when more air is put through is quite horrendous. Instead of the note ringing and getting more full, it quite literally just explodes and the sound goes every which way, not being focused at all. I believe this is because the bore is a lot more open than other clarinets, made to be easy for a 5th grader to pick up and make a sound. Because of that I have to limit how much air to put in due to it being TOO free blowing.
LASTLY,
Yesterday I picked up V12 4's based on the chart here: http://www.vandoren.com/en/fprod/Becs%20de%20clarinette%20Sib%20en.pdf I still have to break them in (Alot :b), but I hope that the sound is much more even once I do get them broken in. I will try to upload a video or something of me playing with them after I get them broken in.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-03-17 16:07
I sense that we have a classic mismatch between mouthpiece and instrument here. A clarinet that is "too free blowing" can be brought to heel with a carefully matched mouthpiece which strategically adds the resistance desired, and focuses the tonal core for you.
I have a Vito 7214 in my studio; I need to use it with a mouthpiece that offers significant resistance to avoid the same tonal faults that you're indicating with yours. With an appropriate mouthpiece and reed, a well-maintained Vito can be a refined, rewarding clarinet.
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2014-03-17 20:11
Ursa, if thats the case, then a new instrument will help a lot (hopefully) because I love my 5RV.
I figure I should let you guys know that I'll be going to an event where they will have 100's of different clarinets there for me to try and purchase.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-03-17 16:48
If you're in love with the 5RV, you could always back it up with a more resistant barrel for use with the Vito...
...or just trade the Vito in on another used plastic clarinet with a resistance profile that works better for you. The (inexpensive) Selmer Signet Resonite and (not quite inexpensive) Buffet B12 come to mind. You will still need a plastic clarinet for outdoors performances if you get a wooden clarinet--find one that works for you.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2014-03-18 14:38
"I'll be going to an event where they will have 100's of different clarinets there for me to try and purchase."
Such events often include poorly adjusted instruments (both student and pro models). Your decision could be based mainly on the state of adjustment, rather than an intrinsic quality.
Post Edited (2014-03-18 18:39)
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