 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-09 16:48
I know that the "best" is perhaps subjective, but if you had a budget of up to $4000, which clarinet would you get and why?
Note: This isn't a topic about whether one should focus on improving one's skills or whether upgrading the clarinet will improve one's playing skills... it's purely about the clarinet itself... which clarinet you love / think is the best, that fall under the $4000 mark - and your reasons / explanation of why you think so.
Post Edited (2014-03-10 06:08)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-03-09 17:53
In my opinion your question is akin to asking "what's the best car under $250,000?"
There are literally MILLIONS of fine clarinets out there for a fraction of your number, if you are willing to include used instruments -- which you should.
Or maybe your question is just a conversation starter.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-09 14:13
I understand that it's a very open ended question... I understand that everyone might have different answers and there's no single "correct" answer. This is why I want people to explain why they love or would recommend a particular clarinet.
Used instruments are a bit tricky. I don't have the luxury of hunting them down, then finding a repairer / technician to fix it up, etc. It's akin to buying a house as a "renovator's dream" vs buying one that is all ready to move in and everything is all fixed / done. But then again perhaps there are some used clarinets for sale that have been fixed up as well. There's less guarantee though about it.
What I want to find out is what people's most favourite go-to clarinets are, that would fall within this price range. I've heard that R13 is the most favourite, but I'm curiuos if it were really true in real life, and this forum is perhaps the best place to find that out?
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-03-09 18:20
What David said.
The best one is the one that works the best when you play test a dozen or so.
FWIW, I play R13's. I played 20 or so new ones at the music store before selecting the current one.
Don't forget part of the budget should be spent on a case, ligature, mouthpiece, etc.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-03-09 18:32
Take $1,000 of that $4,000 and buy a round-trip coach seat to Paris France. Then go to Selmer and to Buffet and decide which of their many clarinets you like best. Talk to them, try the instruments and see for yourself.
That's what I would do.
bruno>
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-03-09 18:35
If you've got a budget of $4000 then look for a good used Bb clarinet, then a good used A clarinet, then a good used Eb clarinet and finally a good used C clarinet and you'll probably still have enough change for new mouthpieces and cases.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-03-09 14:36
What Dave and Paul said.
For far less than $4K, I've set myself up with my two main performance clarinets (Ridenour RCP-576BC, Boosey & Hawkes 8-10), an alto saxophone (Pan American 48M), and a soprano saxophone (Conductor 400)--and all are equipped with good mouthpieces, ligatures, neck straps, and all the other gear that makes life easier on stage.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-09 19:40
Paul, were there great differences amongst the dozen or so R13s that you tried out, or was it tough to pick the best one because they were all good? I'd love to hear your experience on this thanks.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-09 20:06
Jim....
Some people alluded to this, while others simply offered their opinions on horns they liked, which is fine. After all, you did ask. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Assuming your conversation is geared towards the purposes of you eventually going out and purchasing a clarinet, as a opposed to a hypothetical discussion (which is fine too) I, instead, wish to first put the question back on you.
What are your goals? What is the genre of clarinet music you play, or wish to play in? Might this budget also go to the acquisition of an "A" clarinet? What, if any, are your priorities for attributes in an instrument? What do you play now, and with what mouthpiece? What are you already partial towards?
With that said, I'm partial to the R13 line from Buffet (surprise, surprise) yet can site you a littany of problems people have reported with the instrument, as well as advantages to competing manufacturer's models. But that advice is sorta like telling you, as a purchaser of business equipment for a firm, that "nobody ever got fired buying IBM."
I can also tell you that I think Tom Ridenour's product lines delivers one of the best bangs for the buck.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-09 20:45
This hypothetical budget is for just one clarinet, a Bb clarinet.
I am not trying to ask for an advice of which clarinet *I* should get. At least not at this point. Maybe it would be something to consider in the future. I currently have two clarinets and they are good enough for me for now.
I'm just curious as to what others would like to have, or currently have, that they consider the best clarinet that *they* are totally happy with, and not thinking about "upgrading" anymore, and that this clarinet's new price is less than $4000, so this rules out Tosca, Divine, etc.
I am curious to know what those problems are with R13? I think I saw a topic the other day about Buffet botchup: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=401177&t=401177
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-09 21:03
Yep, you understand me :D
By the way I like the idea of going to Paris, however.... it would cost me a lot more than $1000 from Australia, but... I love the museums over there.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-03-09 21:13
Saw a programme the other week filmed in a Paris museum absolutely full to bursting with all manner of animal skeletons. I want to see that!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-03-09 21:21
Bruno,
Buffet and Selmer clarinets are probably more expensive here in France than in the US because of sky-high VAT. In addition to that, R13, the most popular Buffets used in the US, are not available here in France; nobody uses them. Second-hand instruments are also more expensive here than in the US. There are other excellent reasons to come to France, however.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-09 17:26
Wow thanks for that information, ruben. Does France have a tourist refund scheme for the VAT? In Australia, tourists can get a refund of the GST (the same as VAT) of their purchases while they were in Australia.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-03-09 22:16
Yes, soon as you leave the EU you can claim your VAT back, and consequently have to pay import fees and VAT(equivalent) when you enter your home country.
--
Ben
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-03-09 23:19
If you have the time to try out a number of clarinets I'd go with a Buffet R13 or Vintage. The problem is having enough of them to try out to find the right pitch/playing characteristics for you.
If you don't have time or access to a large group of clarinets I'd go with the Yamaha CSG or SEV clarinets. These clarinets are remarkably consistent from one to the other and the problem there is finding a difference to "hang on to." Much like trying a bunch of the same style and size Vandoren mouthpieces.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: wanabe
Date: 2014-03-10 01:55
If you will allow a neophyte to enter an opinion, please allow me to ask, are you one of the 1%? By that I mean are you one of the 1% of clarinetists that can actually benefit from a clarinet of that high a quality or would a few thousand dollars spent on master classes and private tutoring make a bigger difference to you using the same equipment that you are using now?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-03-10 02:00
Attachment: selmerctfullboehm.jpg (330k)
My best clarinet cost less than $4000 - in fact, it cost less than $400.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2014-03-10 02:10
A few years ago, I tried 12 R13 clarinets at a distributor's facility. They all needed work but were all potentially great instruments. It was difficult to pick the best, but the one I bought turned out to be very fine, once worked on after buying it. Most of us do not have the time or the resources to try very many of the fine clarinets now available, which is why I would stick with an R13.
When I've bought instruments from Europe, the VAT is not paid and there is no equivalent in the USA.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-03-10 00:24
I struggle with the 1% concept. I've said before that a better clarinet makes the whole process easier no matter what your level. So getting as good an instrument as you can afford makes sense. There are no Stradavari prices in our world. We all get off pretty cheap as far as I can see.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-10 05:29
I agree with Paul here. And besides, I am just doing a "market research" here, trying to see what clarinets other people use and love.
I just set the limit to $4000 because I want to rule out super expensive clarinets out there for the sake of this research.
While I hope this topic isn't about me and my clarinet skills, I am learning and practicing as much as I can and I am seeing a teacher regularly. This isn't a topic about whether one should focus on improving one's skills or upgrading a clarinet... it's about... which clarinet you love / think is the best, that fall under the $4000 mark.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-03-10 02:28
The best clarinet for under $4000.00 is the one your most enjoy playing.
Tom
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Author: PaulIsaac
Date: 2014-03-10 03:26
Muppie, if you're ever in Brisbane you would be welcome to have a blow on my 1960s model Buffet R13 to see what you reckon. Personally I love the thing and see no reason to change it or get another one. I've had it for over 20 years and playing it is a delight.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-10 07:59
Paul, awesome! I'm on the gold coast. Would love to try out your R13. I'll bring my two clarinets for you to play with if you're interested.
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Author: PaulIsaac
Date: 2014-03-10 08:35
Sounds beaut muppie. Let me know when you're next heading to Brisbane and we'll organise it.
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Author: Siq
Date: 2014-03-10 22:40
I'd like to hear the feedback of this experiment
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Author: gkern
Date: 2014-03-10 23:47
I wasn't going to put my two cents' worth in, but I was just now playing my SML King Marigaux. I have had this clarinet for about 4 months now, and still cannot believe how easily it plays and what a beautiful tone it has.
If anyone else on the forum has one of these, I would be interested in hearing their opinion.
Gary K
Post Edited (2014-03-11 00:02)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-03-11 15:51
Dear Muppie,
Sometimes, French makers have a backlog of discontinued models that they sell for a fraction of the normal price; it takes a little haggling. These discontinued models are not necessarily of inferior quality: they'e just models that never took off, sometimes for mysterious reasons. The music-shop area of Paris has two second-hand shops that usually have a good stock of second-hand clarinets that they sell for very reasonable prices; about 30 per cent lower than what they would go for in a "proper" music shop. Once again, don't expect to find Buffet R13s though; they're not in use here. You can get in touch with me at my personal e-mail address if you need information.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-11 16:08
Ruben, that's very interesting! I have been to Paris twice but that was before I took up Clarinet as a hobby. Which Buffet model is the most popular amongst the professionals in France / Europe, if there are no R13s?
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-03-11 16:16
Muppie: I would say for Buffet: Prestige, Tosca and RC...Festival, to a lesser extent. The latest Selmer model: Pivilège, is also used- a good clarinet. I go to Italy at times and have seen serious music students use the Italian Patricola; very fine value for one's money (cheaper than Buffet, so perfect for a penniless student, which is what I was when I lived there. Now I am a penniless adult!)
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-11 17:34
@PaulIsaac, please shoot me an email - mupperoni@gmail.com thanks! Sorry I don't know how to send "private message" on this forum.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-03-11 19:35
This will be difficult, as neither of you has chosen to display their email address when their highlighted bb name is clicked.
Tony F.
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Author: GaryH
Date: 2014-03-11 22:05
Muppie, from other posts on this forum, you say that you have been playing clarinet for only a few months. You have a Buffet EF11 and a new Ridenour Lyrique Libertas. Are you thinking you have progressed enough to buy a better clarinet? There are some on this board that would suggest your Libertas is the best clarinet you can buy for under $4000.
Just curious
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Author: PaulIsaac
Date: 2014-03-12 00:26
Thanks for pointing that out TonyF, have fixed that on my profile.
Muppie I sent you an email.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-11 20:37
Easy to miss in the thread GaryH--so perfectly okay that you might have not seen--muppie's inquiries were expressly stated in the hypothetical market research vein.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-12 03:11
GaryH, I have only started learning the Clarinet for less than 3 months and I am still really terrible at it. My embouchure is far from perfect, my tonguing is like an epileptic fit, and I am still struggling in crossing the break smoothly and getting my fingerings right. Getting a Tosca or a Divine won't help me play any better. Oh yes, I am well aware that!
I think the Libertas is a good clarinet. It has less resistance compared to E12F and I like that. But I don't like some aspects of it: the keywork and the sound. I am sure it is just me, and the clarinet itself is awesome. I really hate the key work. Some of the keys are just really really annoying for me. I know some of the keys that I dislike, can be bent. I don't want to bend it myself because more than likely I'll ruin it. Maybe one day I'll take it to a technician to do that. I am sure this key work, with enough time to get used to, will be fine, so I just need to be patient with it I guess. Another thing is that I got my teacher to play the Libertas using her mouthpiece and I prefer the sound that comes out of her Buffet clarinet than the one from the Libertas. This may also be because she's obviously used to her clarinet vs the Libertas.
Regarding the sound, I think it is just me and how I play it. Tom Ridenour plays it beautifully from what little I can hear on some of his youtube videos.
In hindsight I should have just gotten an R13 rather than E12F. I know, for a total beginner that might seem "wasteful"? But I know this is a hobby that I will stick to for the rest of my life, and getting an E12F and then upgrading later is more wasteful.
I don't regret getting the Libertas because I like getting to know it and having something different. I like the fact that it's not made of wood and that I don't have to worry about it cracking - although really I don't think cracking is going to be a huge issue with a wooden clarinet. I live in a rather nice climate, it never gets too cold nor too hot, nor too humid / dry.
So at this point, I am just doing some market research and wondering what people are actually using / playing with (that falls under the $4000 mark)
I hope this clarifies it so people would stop criticising me for my lack of skill which I have openly admitted
Post Edited (2014-03-12 07:14)
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Author: GaryH
Date: 2014-03-12 08:26
Muppie, I must have missed something. I didn't notice anyone being critical of your level of proficiency. My question is why you are inquiring about better clarinets. I didn't catch that you were just making a hypothetical market research inquiry.
Your problem with the Ridenour keywork is something I understand. I don't care for it, but it is something that I could get used to if I truly loved the acoustics of the instrument. The 576bc is the newest model I've played, but it didn't float my boat ergonomically or acoustically. The newest model may be something different. Maybe someday I'll get an opportunity to try one. I like the idea of hard rubber, and hope the Libertas is something special.
If I were to buy a new clarinet for under $4K with what knowledge I have at this time I'd play several R13s with silver plated keys and pick the best. That is the benchmark clarinet among the clarinet players I've come in contact with these last 40 years or so.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-12 08:46
Ha sorry I was being a bit defensive there Thanks for your input about the R13. One thing that fascinates me (I'm just naturally a curious person), is what ruben was saying that nobody uses R13 in Europe. I hear about this "European" vs "American" sound etc. I don't quite understand it all.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-03-12 04:50
muppie, they're different enough to notice.
I've had students as young as age 12 pick out the best from the lot.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-12 09:32
Hi Paul, thanks. That is surprising to hear (pardon the pun)! It seems that finding/picking a good clarinet is a bit of an art in itself.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-03-12 09:37
I don't like some of the ones my students select; they are not such a good choice for me.
However, their chests, lungs, throats, etc. are shaped slightly differently than me, the instruments they select are the best for them. I help them with the process,however, it has been surprising to me to see that even rather young students can hear a difference. And I usually confirm their choices. Its like picking a new pair of jeans - you pick 3 off the rack with identical sizes but only one fits perfect.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-03-12 11:53
Muppie: I think the basic reason why the Buffet R13 is seldom used in Europe is that it is pitched at 440. French, Italian and Spanish orchestras play higher. The English play, by and large, at 440, but I have nevertheless seen any R13s there either, nor in Scandinavian countries. Some people on this side of the pond have told me that they find them a bit "dead"; I am simply quoting them. Personally, if I played Buffet, I would play the R13.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: PaulIsaac
Date: 2014-03-12 12:05
muppies said: "My embouchure is far from perfect, my tonguing is like an epileptic fit, and I am still struggling in crossing the break smoothly and getting my fingerings right. Getting a Tosca or a Divine won't help me play any better"
muppie, I've been playing a lot longer than 3 months and I still don't sound anything like Artie Shaw, Ben Redwine, Ken Peplowski or any of my clarinet heroes. But I enjoy practicing and playing. I enjoy it a lot more with my Buffet than I did with my old beginner's plastic clarinet, but that is understandable of course.
At the end of the day I tend to agree with those posters on these forums who suggest that practice, not hardware, is the true key to progress.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-03-12 18:20
The R13 is the most popular clarinet in the UK among the majority of players (of all abilities), the RC is the next most popular model. Those that spend a bit more go for the Prestige versions of either model.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-03-13 14:12
Chris,
How could I have possibly forgotten Britain? Once again, I think the choice of R13s in Britain, as in the US, is because you really do play at A-440. Here in France, we play at A-442 officially, but the actual pitch is actually higher than that after a few minutes. Andrew Marriner plays a Buffet Prestige, if I remember well; or maybe a Buffet Festival. Do any top players play Peter Eaton clarinets? Is there anybody left still playing Boosey and Hawkes 1010s? It would be a pity to see the very distinctive English sound of yester-year disappear altogether.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Siq
Date: 2014-03-15 23:19
I'm looking for a clarinet to replace my Buffet B10.
I was advised to look for a used R13, that is likely to have an excellent sound. If taken good care of, would a used instrument last long? How much should one of these cost me?
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-03-16 00:53
I play on an e13 which essentially the same as an r13 and I like it a lot but I think you should check out some of Backun's stuff, specifically the protege cocobolo. Also look at Selmer Paris's clarinets, as my friend loves his Selmer. With a $4k you could also probably find some nice used stuff (tosca, MOBA) if you looked hard enough.
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