 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Zartan
Date: 2014-03-04 00:34
Hi all, my name is Patrick and I'm new to the boards here, I'm hoping someone can help me out! I acquired the Bass Clarinet pictured on a blind date at Applebee's for 10 dollars odd as that is! I'm hoping someone can help me identify it and I'm having issues with what mouthpiece to get for it? The only markings is the engraving pictured as well as even better a hand carved Morgan Park High School right into the wood. There are no other markings identifying it! I had a Yamaha 4c bass clarinet mouthpiece a friend gave me and it doesn't fit! Thanks kindly!
Patrick
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-04 05:40
Before we take a step forward Patrick, are we certain that this instrument is no longer Morgan park High School property?
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Author: Zartan
Date: 2014-03-04 00:50
Well seeing as it was hanging on the Applebee's wall for what looks like forever! I think we are in the clear
It's interesting because I walked in right when the store was remodeling there's walls and everything was for sale, what's even more interesting is they had this marked as a oboe!? No worries, I have the receipt from the manager!
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-04 07:06
Legal: That you, and 10 people in the economic chain bought and sold this clarinet with legitimate intentions throught its recent history won't convert it into legal property if it was once stolen. But given the years it was up on a wall, I doubt it's hot, much less that anyone's out looking for it.
Before you go out and spend money, consider getting the instrument checked to see if it's at least air seal worthy. Simply bringing it to playability may be as straightforward as finding a mouthpiece for it (which may itself not be straightforward), or as drawn out as a major overhaul or worse.
Next, measure the opening, in inches and millimeters. Do the same for your Yamaha 4C mouthpiece. (Let's see if we're working with a standard size bass clarinet mouthpiece coupling.) If the Yamaha 4C mouthpiece doesn't work on it you may be looking at a missing adapter piece that allows conventional bass clarinet mouthpieces to fit in it, or instead that the clarinet takes a special size mouthpiece. Is the mouthpiece too big or small for the clarinet? I'm wondering if this seemingly proprietary size opening was what had the nice people at "Morgan Park" (whereever that High School may be) take the instrument "for a stroll."
Here's some quick links to some of industry's larger internet woodwind mouthpiece sellers, presented without bias or order. Some will let you purchase a mouthpiece and return it for refund...although I would be honest with them about your intentions. After all, when people buy mouthpieces on trial for fit, the "fitness" deals with the end of the mouthpiece that goes in one's mouth, not instrument. They may also be able to help you out if you're up front with them about your situation.
Maybe others on the board recognize the instrument.
http://www.muncywinds.com/index.php/clarinet/mouthpieces/bass-clarinet.html
http://www.wwbw.com/Bass-Clarinet-Mouthpieces-Clarinet-Mouthpieces.wwbw?ipp=12
http://shop.weinermusic.com/Bass-Clarinet-Mouthpieces/products/1503/
Good luck
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Author: Zartan
Date: 2014-03-04 02:53
Thanks for all the info I appreciate it, I do have to add I really don't appreciate the legal thoughts on this though, as a legitimate prof i just don't appreciate the approach your insisting on the instrument. It's insulting, but thank you for your help.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-03-04 09:04
Patrick,
I don't see why you should consider these comments as in any way insulting. The fact is that even if the instrument has been hanging on the wall for years, if it originally got there by illegal means then it will always be of questionable ownership. Your perfectly legitimate purchase of it does not automatically make it yours if it was originally stolen from its owner/s, and all that leaves you with is the grounds for a civil action to recover your $10 from the seller.
The board is constantly asked to look out for stolen instruments as a service to its members. This query was as much for your peace of mind as the members of this board. How would you feel if the situation were reversed and somebody was asking how to fix a horn that had been stolen from you? Perhaps not by them, but by somebody further down the chain.
Tony F.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-03-04 09:10
As a follow up to the above, here is the url for Morgan Park High School, Chicago. A phone call could resolve the issue for all time.
http://morganparkcps.enschool.org/index.jsp
Tony F.
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Author: Zartan
Date: 2014-03-04 04:24
"The board is constantly asked to look out for stolen instruments as a service to its members. This query was as much for your peace of mind as the members of this board."
Ok, This I understand, had this been mentioned with the question right from the beginning I would have proceeded differently. I was offended by the inquiry out of the gate. The clarinet had no serials to do a courtesy search on, no markings, nothing except the engraving in the photo, and the hand carved Morgan parks engraving as noted, thank you for the URL link. I will make a call to them tomorrow and inquire on the instrument history.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2014-03-04 06:03
Don't worry about it's heritage as it probably is not worth much. Perhaps the desecration to it by some person with a tool can be sanded or ground off. However, it might be useable with a good mouthpiece.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2014-03-04 16:11
(It's not uncommon for schools to discard old musical instruments when the anticipated maintenance costs reach a certain point.)
Quote:
I acquired the Bass Clarinet pictured ...
Where's the "picture"?
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-04 12:03
Patrick:
I am sorry if my words, although not meant to do so, caused you offense.
As Mr. Fairbridge above says for me, perhaps better than I can for myself, I feel obligation to, in no particular order, the moderators of this board, you, the rightful owner of this clarinet (which likely is you), and many fellow enthusiasts to never allow our suggestions to aid in the use or financial exchange of stolen property. You, being new to the board, probably didn't, nor could have realized that as my intention, even though more seasoned members did. Going forward, I will be sure to explain the intention behind a question I ask that can be interpreted multiple ways, and particularly one asked of a new member: as you in fairness indicated you were. Mea culpa.
It would be a shame to send out a hidden message here that newcomers aren't welcome to ask questions, and run contrary to a philosophy where we members, most of which are very nice, seek to make people more knowledgeable and interested about all things clarinet, at all levels of play. I too have been on bboards to acquire information from those in the know, on topics new to me, and felt my reception luke warm at best. I'd hate for you to feel that way here.
I never questioned in my mind your acquisition of the clarinet by legitimate means. My concern, as both Mr. Fairbridge and I both indicated was that once an item is stolen, nothing about its subsequent legitimate sale and purchase by decent people changes its stolen status, or need to be returned to the rightful owner, even at your expense, and even if you are an posession of a legitimate sales receipt. Speaking in general terms, not specific to this clarinet, the law normally won't come after people who possess stolen items when they do so unknown to them, anymore than a person possessing a legitimate bill of sale will justify to the courts the current possessor's right to keep said item and not return it to the legitimate owner
While it's not my place to speak for anyone but myself, I hope you continue to feel free to come to the board with questions having followed up with the High School. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-04 17:33
I think I've already violated my own wish to be clearer with things to bboard newcomers.
To point: Mr. Fairbridge is the gentleman above who goes by the bboard name of Tony F. I acquired more information about him, including his last name by clicking on his Tony F. listing where it's underlined above.
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Author: Zartan
Date: 2014-03-04 21:27
Hi all,
Thank you, and my apologies to you perfect reed, the mod, and everyone else as well. That was an over reaction on my end, part excited first question as I just got the instrument and was hoping to put it to use, part wt? is this moment, now clearly understand why it was asked.
Ok, I just spoke with the Band Director who is a very nice woman via email at the school (they have a great music program btw!) and the cool news is the Clarinet is in the clear.
I also noticed there is a marking, it's smudged out in the wood around it but I can see a S and C in between what looks like an anchor? Also to answer your question the Yamaha 4c mouthpiece is to large for the opening?
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Author: Zartan
Date: 2014-03-04 16:32
Oh sorry, also think I made a double post the first time out which had the original pictures in it here's the instrument;
http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p672/zartan87/image_zps2e406c8a.jpg
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-04 22:47
Does the clarinet's neck appear detachable?
And are you able to get any dimension sizes on this opening in the neck that you report too small for your mouthpiece?
Finally, might you be able to share with us the size of side of the mouthpiece you have that interfaces with the instrument, (as opposed to the side that interaces your mouth?)
========
Respectively, let me state why I've asked these questions so no confusion arises.
If the neck is detachable, perhaps you can acquire a replacement neck whose mouthpiece interface is more ammeniable to standard size bass clarinet mouthpieces. Or maybe the dimensions of the neck you have match another (semi) standard mouthpiece size.
I'm interest to see if your reported Yamama 4C Bass Clarinet mouthpiece is standard size. If it isn't, maybe getting a mouthpiece that fits is as simple as getting a standard bass clarinet mouthpiece. Of course I will remind you again Patrick that you may want to have the instrument examined by someone in the know as to its ability to play anything (e.g. maybe pads are so dried out that the clarinet doesn't seal and isn't playable) before spending the money on a mouthpiece--but of course it's your call. I am guessing from the High School that you are U.S. Mid-West based. Music shops in this part of the country are not my forte, my being East Coast based. Others on the bboard though can answer questions on good places to take your clarinet local to you, with the same familiarity that they know the back of their own hand. Ask that here if it is such knowledge you seek.
Working blindly, as the mouthpiece doesn't appear to be in your pictures, please allow me to also ask you this. I assure you, my inquiry is solely for the purpose of helping you solve your problem, not to insult your intellect.
Does the part of the mouthpiece that interfaces with the instrument have, or not have cork on it? If you are dealing with a corkless mouthpiece (in otherwords one that never took cork, even if it doesn't have it now)
you may have in your posssion some version of a Yamaha 4C Saxophone mouthpiece (Alto/Tenor).
I wish you best of luck in this being the best $10 you ever spent.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-04 22:48
The mouthpiece being to large for the opening does not sound consistent with your mouthpiece being saxophone based---I'm just trying to rule things out.
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Author: Zartan
Date: 2014-03-04 23:22
Hi, no worries and I appreciate your help and I will have it checked thanks! I was hellbent on trying to see if I could get it to work due to some deadlines I'm working on, but it looks like the process will be a bit more difficult then first projected!
Ok good call, the neck itself is detachable.
The Yamaha mouthpiece is a BCL-4C so it's a Bass Clarinet mouth piece researching it online with corking on it, when placed against the neck it's the identical dimensions as the neck opening, they are flush with each other, unfortunately I have no way to measure it but I'll dig up some measuring tape ASAP!
I'll also absolutely check for some local shops and get the instrument in there. The detachable neck really helps with that as well, I appreciate that!
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-03-04 23:31
I really love the idea of an instrument that's been made into a wall hanger getting a 2nd or 3rd life and making more music.
I've always wished that there was a way to tap in and listen to everything that was ever played on the random old horn you might encounter. Same as I'd like to see every photo that was ever made using any random old camera of other piece of photo gear- though that could raise other issues, LOL.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-03-04 23:42
Since you paid so little and since a band director already looked at this clarinet and didn't run screaming, you've probably made an excellent deal, even considering the money needed for restoration. In fact, I'm mighty jealous! However, there's something else people need to beware of with instruments that have been hanging on restaurant walls. Often, an interior decorator will remove keys to make a clarinet or saxophone lie flat against a wall. A decorator may also drill new holes on the "wall side," for picture hooks.
Same goes for instruments at flea markets. A flea market dealer who goes to auctions and buys restaurant discards or "parts horns" from schools or stores may be completely honest about trying to describe condition, but may be clueless about what to look for. Buyer beware.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2014-03-04 23:49)
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