 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2014-02-27 06:22
I've looked at all my mouthpieces as to evenness, and none of them have perfectly even rails. This includes two Vandoren classic mpcs, two classic Selmers, one new Yamaha 4CM, one Noblet supposedly touched up my a refinisher and one unknown mpc. Most of them had a fairly flat table, but none of the had perfectly matched facings on the rails left to right. Bear in mind that most of them were fairly close but none of them were dead on the way I would expect them to be if they were up to the high standards of a hand finished model. Supposedly this bit of unevenness is the cause of a lot of subtle problems in our technique.
Perhaps the new CNC Rico Reserve mouthpieces are the first nearly perfect mouthpieces that have not been hand finished after machining. Has anyone measured these Ricos for evenness with a glass and feeler gauge set?
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-02-27 06:42
Garth...I'm trying to understand which measurements you are claiming as asymmetrical.
Are you saying: when I measure a certain distance from the tip of the mouthpiece, back along the rails, the thickness of the left rail is different than the thickness of the right rail at that same distance from the tip, or are you saying
for the same distance from the tip, the right rail is a different distance from the reed than the left rail..
or both?
I would think you're saying the first thing given your "none of the[m] had perfectly matched facings on the rails left to right" but I of course could be wrong in my interpretation of your comments.
To restate, I think you are looking at the mouthpiece, sans reed, from a bird's eye view, with the bottom of the mouthpiece facing up. Is that right?
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-02-27 02:14
Garth Libre wrote:
> I've looked at all my mouthpieces as to evenness, and none of
> them have perfectly even rails.
I'm assuming from what follows in your post that you mean the curve isn't the same along both rails (at first I thought you were talking about the rails' thickness).
> This includes two Vandoren
> classic mpcs, two classic Selmers, one new Yamaha 4CM, one
> Noblet supposedly touched up my a refinisher and one unknown
> mpc.
I imagine this has something to do with the way the curves were applied. Some of those mouthpieces may even have been hand-adjusted. That the touched-up one isn't perfectly straight isn't surprising. I don't find the Yamaha mouthpieces to be very consistent in any way. And we don't know anything about your "unknown mouthpiece," either its manufacturer or what may have been done to it since it left the factory. So this is really not a sample from which you can make any kind of generalizations.
> Most of them had a fairly flat table,
Some mouthpieces are designed with a deliberately applied slightly concave shape in the table. The theory is that as the ligature presses the reed against the table (and into the dip) it gives more spring at the tip of the reed.
Are you sure that the Vandorens and the Selmers have not been refaced or hand-tweaked by someone? If they're "classic" it sounds as if they were made longer ago than I think you're been playing. Or are they new mouthpieces you've bought but with Vandoren's and Selmer's standard "classic" facings? Lots of older mouthpieces are on the market because someone tried to improve it and didn't like the result.
> Bear in
> mind that most of them were fairly close but none of them were
> dead on the way I would expect them to be if they were up to
> the high standards of a hand finished model. Supposedly this
> bit of unevenness is the cause of a lot of subtle problems in
> our technique.
Some hand-finished models are made deliberately asymmetrical (to compensate for the slight rotation caused by supporting the clarinet with the right thumb). But you have to adjust your reeds to work with these facings. So it isn't so much the asymmetry that causes the technical problems, but the failure of the player to accommodate it. Of course, if a mouthpiece is uneven because of sloppy production, the likelihood is that the curve isn't the only sloppy feature of the mouthpiece and many possible explanations may exist for whatever technical problems such mouthpieces cause.
>
> Perhaps the new CNC Rico Reserve mouthpieces are the first
> nearly perfect mouthpieces that have not been hand finished
> after machining. Has anyone measured these Ricos for evenness
> with a glass and feeler gauge set?
>
Yes, and they seem consistent in their measurements. The consistent curves and tip openings, however, don't necessarily translate into consistent mouthpieces. I have several, was playing on the X0 for a while, and each sounds and responds slightly differently.
Karl
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2014-02-27 02:30
kdk got what I was saying about left to right asymmetry. I was referring to the facing curve, not the rail widths. What surprises me about your experience with the Rico Reserve XO's is that they are measurably consistent but functionally different. This tells me that to date, the most modern manufacturing processes are unable to produce perfectly consistent results. I can understand this when it comes to reeds where dimensional differences may not be as important as minute differences in a reed's flexibility, but mpcs should perform identicaly, if the dimensions are identical.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-02-27 08:30
One must make sure that the glass used with the feeler gauges is perfectly square to the mouthpiece. If it isn't then it will look like an assymetrical facing.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: donald
Date: 2014-02-27 09:10
Also you have to check your glass and gauges for any dirt (even a fine hair can put measurements out), the gauges also can get very fine rust or corrosion on them that needs to be removed (treat them with a fine oil to prevent this- obviously wipe off the oil before using them, but usually a little residue will be enough to prevent corrosion)
dn
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-02-27 19:44
I checked them, over the many decades, using a gauge set. Bought only the mpcs which passed tests to my satisfaction, which most of them did. However, the rail width test, done by eyeing, no gauge, showed lack of symmetry for many mpcs.
richard smith
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-02-27 19:03
The actual way you hold the glass guage against the facing is critical and it is easy to get misleading readings.
In the early stages taking multiple readings on the same mouthpiece and comparing your results each time can be a good guide to the consistency of your technique.
I have measured many VD mouthpieces over previous years using guages in increments of 0.001" or of 0.02mm from start of curve to the tip. In general I found then that they were pretty consistently even across the rails but haven't checked very recent production.
And yes as noted in earlier post the guage and facing must be absolutely clean before you start.
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