 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2014-02-23 05:56
I've found that a #3 equivalent Legere Signature @ 2 3/4, works well on my present MP but wondering if the so called "Legere Frienly" mp's are worth a try. what MP's work best for you with Legere Signture?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-02-23 06:14
Walter Grabner
Ted Lane
Vandoren M15
Richard Hawkins
Backun
Rico Reserve
I currently have or had had all these mouthpieces and been able to successfully play a legere on all of them.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2014-02-23 06:14)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-02-23 18:13
They work OK on B45's and Rico Reserve X0, don't work well on Selmer HS*, I have 2 Selmer 85-115's, one works perfectly with Signatures and the other one squeals like a piglet but sounds good with cane. Work OK on B & H 926-2.
Tony F.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-02-23 21:29
It's reallly a silly question. Different mouthpieces work differently for every player no matter what make, model or type of reed you use. If enough people answer your question you will get very single mouthpiece ever made as an answer. Just try as many as you can. That's the only way to know what will work best for you instead of a hundred different players giving you a hundred different answers.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-02-23 23:22
Ed's got a good point.
I will say that you can look at legere artists that make mouthpieces as well. That's pretty much a guarantee that the MPC works with legere.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: babrinka77
Date: 2014-02-23 23:43
PlayNick makes mouthpieces specialy designed to play Legere reeds.
They have different openings, and very good players use them.
I received some of them to try from a spanish dealer and i choosed the Playeasy B2 model.
Is a lovely mouthpiece.
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Author: MSK
Date: 2014-02-23 20:49
I'm with Ed. I use the exact same mouthpieces, but go down 0.25 strength as compared to Vandoren reeds. So far that includes my current favorite Fobes San Francisco, but also older MPs including Fobes Debut, Vandoren B45, 5rV lyre, M13, 2rv, and Selmer HS++. Switching between cane and Legere is non-issue so long as I get the strength right. Now those individual mouthpieces don't always require the same reed strength, particularly the Selmer.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2014-02-23 21:11
Ed (as well as a general rant),
A hundred different players will give a hundred different answers. You always give the same one...
Sure, if someone wants to use Legeres they should try things until they find one that works well.
To you, that's a stopping point.
To me, that's the starting point of learning.
WHY does it work? Could you explain it to anyone? Why did others not work? What is being gained by any particular combination, and\or what is lost? What mouthpiece design styles best suit these reeds and why?
I think we can all agree that we have to make a lot of decisions each day. Our decisions in our profession (music or otherwise) have to informed and educated decisions or they will lead us astray.
We should encourage curiosity and a wish to try as much as there is to try in the process of making any decision. We should also encourage people (and ourselves) to understand each option as best we can and know why we made the decision we did.
It's no different than deciding on how to play a phrase, style, or interpreting everything written in the score. No one should ever tell their student "Just try all the possibilities and just do the one that feels the best". I have no doubt that, as a teacher, you would take issue with someone playing the Copland concerto the same way as the mozart concerto. If they said "I just like it this way" you would not accept that as an adequate answer since they have nothing to back it up.
Not everyone understands reeds\mouthpieces\ligatures etc. as to their function, differences in design, how that influences the playing experience. It's not all common knowledge amongst people with years and years of experience.
However, we should all instill a sense of intellectual curiosity for people to ASK questions, get as much data as they can when making any decision. Otherwise, what is learning? What is education? Since you don't have to be in school for education and learning to take place, it's something that never stops. This is why I take issue with encouraging people to not bother learning WHY.
You don't have to know a lot to find something that works. Education means learning why things work the way they do and people should be encouraged to do so. So you get 100 different opinions from 100 different people. Great, you can look at all of them and decide which are helpful and which are not and learn from it. Saying not to worry about learning and just find whatever is something I disagree with strongly.
Sew the seeds of curiousity, logic, and knowledge.
TO THE OP:
I have noticed that when people go to a Legere from a cane reed on their usual mouthpiece, it can take some time to isolate which strength best suits the mouthpiece (reed to reed can vary widely, so finding the right strength is important). Much of the time, finding the proper strength for your normal mouthpiece is all that is needed.
In my expereince with these reeds, I found myself needing a ligature that is a little smaller in circumference and holds the reed more tightly than is usually necessary for cane reeds. Cane doesn't slip off the mouthpiece in the way that composite materials can, so making sure it stays secure is very important.
The overal thin nature of the signatures (partly the reason for the necessity of a smaller ligature) makes them vibrate a little more freely, perhaps with a little bit less natural hold, which can mean a different mouthpiece design would better suit these reeds. Increasing resistance and\or stability in the mouthpiece by having a shorter facing, more open tip, thicker rails, and so on would be things to look for. As I said, finding the right reed strength can go a long way, but these are basic mouthpiece design aspects that contribute to a legere playing best.
The importance of reed placement is higher on legeres than cane reeds. This is due to a number of possible factors, but making sure the reed is on straight and that you've found the right placement of the tip of the reed to the tip of the mouthpiece to have the reed play its best. The same principles as cane reed placement apply, if its soft try moving it up and vice versa.
If you mentioned what mouthpiece you've been using and how it works with the legeres, I could point you in a good direction.
If someone says a mouthpiece is legere friendly, ask them why. There are a number of people referring to their mouthpieces as legere friendly. Be curious about it. Ask them why they are legere friendly. Ask them what strengths have been most successful. Ask other mouthpiece makers what their thoughts are on legere friendly mouthpieces.
All of them will have answers. If the answers are too simple (not enough information) or too complicated (too much detail and jargon most aren't used to), let them know and they will do what they can to explain it.
You will have a better understanding about the reeds and what mouthpiece designs are better with legeres.
IMHO: A mouthpiece that is very comfortable with cane reeds will generally play well with the appropriate strength legere (if one likes legeres). There are some general design aspects that can aid in improving the playability of legeres that I already mentioned, but it's always a good idea to give your primary mouthpiece a good run with the legeres (or any new type of reeds) before making a decision to change mouthpieces to accommodate the reed.
Best of luck!
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2014-02-24 04:01
Thanks for this very comprehensive and HELPFUL response! Can't say the same for the gentleman who called my query a "silly" question! I've found that the signature does well on my current McClune SP MP. I was just looking to see if there might be a somewhat better fit etc out of CURIOSITY.
My thanks and appreciation.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2014-02-24 04:03
I'm back again, sorry! This will be a short one.
McClune's mouthpieces are generally a little more open with larger rails. That combination should work well with the signatures, given a good one in the right strength. (I have 4 and wen't through 75 to get them). In Canada, local music stores have that kind of stock. 20 R13 Bb's on hand, 13 A's. etc.)
Other suggestions: Brad Behn. He's an amazing craftsman and knows Legeres (and every other reed available) and how the facing should accommodate the reeds.
McClune- you can call him and see if he offers something that would work better with legeres.
Let us know what ends up happening.
Disclaimer: I don't get anything for mentioning anyone.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2014-02-24 04:05
and Ed. Sorry we ended up gaining up on you! We differ in opinion in this area.
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2014-02-24 18:18
Thanks again for all the info; My McClunes are great! I have SP & SPE; talked to David and he is going to see if another SPE would work even better. My semi-educated guess is this is as good as it gets. I've ordered a Fobes Debut, just for fun to see how it works and may give it away to a student if I don't care for it. I'll keep yall posted. thanks again to all who've replied.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-02-25 07:07
OT: Fobes debut mouthpieces are devilishly good. I mean, it's about the most fun you can have out of 30 or so bucks and will really make you sit back and realize big performance doesn't HAVE to equal big money.
On topic, in general, if you have a mouthpiece that can for some reason accept a wide range of reeds and allows more playable reeds per box than another mouthpiece, a legere should work well on it. If you have a mouthpiece that every reed must be adjusted "just so" to get it to play, legere probably isn't going to work.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2014-02-28 21:58
follow-up Report: Legere signature works very well on a Debut MP! devilishly good as previously said; close to my custom mp, not quite, but darn close. Now awaiting incoming Buffet Masters CL 4 to try it there also. But so far works just great on my McClune SP.
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2014-03-06 05:17
2nd follow-up report: tried a Buffet "Masters" CL4 today with the Legere signature; first: great mp, at least for me; second; it worked quite well with the Legere signature AND a M Forestone Black Bamboo. Try it! you may like it!
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-14 17:36
pplateau: Which one did you prefer, the Debut MP or the Masters CL4? (You meant Vandoren Masters mouthpiece, not buffet?)
Post Edited (2014-03-14 21:49)
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2014-03-14 22:24
actually preferred the Debut! Yes I meant VD Masters not Buffet. All in all, though I did not prefer either to my already-owned David McClune SP or SPE mp's.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-03-15 00:04
pplateau, what did you do with all the mouthpieces that you ordered? Did you keep them, or send them back?
You mentioned that you have two McClunes, SP and SPE. What's the opening size? They have 1.02 - 1.08. Did you ask Mr. McClune about the Legere and which one he would recommend?
Post Edited (2014-03-15 15:31)
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2014-03-16 00:22
I sent the Masters mp back; the Debut I gave to a newbie adult clarinetist to try out last week. If she wants it I will let her keep it. I purchased all my McClunes a few years ago so did not recently purchase them with intent to use Legere's. I was playing strictly cane reeds then; I've come to think that most good mp's that work for you will probably work fine with the Legere signature. But only you could say for your own setup. I've not yet tried any of the mp's which are advertised as "Legere friendly." But I've been using my Legere Signature on my McClunes in community band, clarinet choir and a Dixie group. I keep a few broken in canes, ( Rico Reserve Classic) for special occasions, but I'm typically slapping on the Signature and off I go! I also tried some new "Black Bamboo" reeds but find them not as much to my liking as the Signature. As the French say, "chacun a son gout!" (to each his own). My McClunes are 1.02 tip opening. I have an older VD 5RV Lyre and the Legere works on that too btw.
Post Edited (2014-03-15 20:25)
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Author: Presto ★2017
Date: 2014-03-15 21:24
Hello pplateau,
Where did you get a hold of the Forestone Black Bamboo clarinet reeds? I can only find them for saxophone online.
Thanks
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