 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ozlock
Date: 2014-02-23 00:49
CSO announced on Feb 20 that Stephen Williamson will return in September. He was listed as on leave of absence this season. He is principal clarinet for NY Phil and CSO. He was appointed by Muti in 2011 (from Met) but played here sparingly. Most of the 2012-13 season he was in NY. Apparently hez made a decision. Most of the season we had ringers from Minneapolis and Cincinnati, and, of course, Yeh. Now that Minnie has settled with musicians, CSO needs a principal. What a weird passage from 2008 when Combs retired and now.
Hank
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Author: BobW
Date: 2014-02-23 01:02
see the topic
"NY Phil cancels Nielsen's Clarinet Concerto"
for more information about CSO principal clarinetist
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-02-23 05:31
How come, despite 200 virtuosic clarinetists worldwide, all vying for this position with the NY Philharmonic, can it not be filled by now?
Is it because NYC is some "one horse town" with no culture, classical music, or well known music school: I don't think so.
Is it just that the commitee is looking for someone who makes Martin Frost look like an amateur, and that person doesn't exist?
Is it because Nuccio, a gifted player, doesn't deserve the job?
Is it because the named players the orchestra is looking for, to sell tickets, just aren't interested in the slot?
It is because all clarinetists are gainfully employed, demanding top dollar in 1 orchestra after the next, such that some orchestras are putting flyers in local elementary schools for "saxophone players who might be interested in trying the clarinet?"
Drucker is a brilliant player with a legacy not likely to be matched, at least in years. But hardly is he irreplaceable.
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Author: TAS
Date: 2014-02-23 00:59
Maybe now that the CSO has brought this fine clarinetist back into the fold, the will address their slowly deteriorating brass and inner string sections.
TAS
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-02-23 21:25
Reminder, they did hire Morales before offering the job to Williamson. I can't speak for Williamson but Morales decided not to go to NY for personal reasons. One of which of course is that his wife is a member of the violin section in the Philadelphia orchestra. It would be interesting to know why Williamson decided to return to Chicago but perhaps it's none of our business. Having played in a professional orchestra for many years I can think of several reasons why a player would decide to turn one job down in order to stay someplace else, assuming it was his decision. He's a great player. Not many of us ever had the choice of two great jobs of course. So NY should just offer the job to the guy that's been good enough to do the job most of the time since Drucker retired. It's so typical these days that someone is good enough to do a job on a temporary basis for years on end but not good enough to give them the job full time. It's mind boggling.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: BobW
Date: 2014-02-23 20:20
Ed Palanker stated
"So NY should just offer the job to the guy that's been good enough to do the job most of the time since Drucker retired"
NY Phil should do this soon or that person might get a better offer and be gone too, then what will they do?
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Author: William
Date: 2014-02-24 19:59
My old college band director, Prof. Ray Dvorak, use to muse, "the definition of an expert is someone from 50 miles out of town." And this definitely seems to be true for major orchestral auditions. My question, when you have a super star already in the clarinet section--like the CSO's John Bruce-Yeh--why waste all this time hiring an "expert" from out of town. Or NYC's Mark Nuccio?? They have been "in position" for years, are accepted by audience and collegue alike and play just as well as anyone on the planet, discounting individual opinion which is natural. I say, save the cost of international search--everyone is good, after all--and use the savings to help improve the orchestra's financial wellness.
So, John Bruce-Yeh (or Gregory Smith) for CSO Principal and Mark Nuccio (or any other local "good" clarinetist) for the NYC. I'll bet 99% of the audience will not be able to notice any "problem" with how the Principal chair sounds, anyway.
Hmmm, just took a "time out' to read LarryB's posting regarding the Nielson and wonder 'why' Chicago would even give Williamson a second chance after he jumped ship in the first place? JYB and GS aren't going anywhere soon and either would be just as good on the ear for most patrons. Just say'n.........
Post Edited (2014-02-24 20:04)
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2014-02-24 20:46
One thing never mentioned in these threads: Some players prefer second chair, are better suited for it, and wouldn't want the principal job if offered. I have no idea if the players mentioned in this thread fit this, and wouldn't dare speculate. But speaking in the abstract, there can be many reasons: it is a highly specialized set of abilities one must have to play second well, requiring a specific musical personality. Anyone who has played principal in a professional orchestra knows how important a sensitive and responsive second player is--and if they're honest, they'll acknowledge it's a subtly different set of skills.
In jazz gigs, a similar phenomenon exists. Not every player wants to be the big soloist. I was on a gig recently where I suddenly changed key in the middle of a solo section (too quickly, I worried at the time)--and the player comping for me filled in perfectly-even supplying a rational chord progression under me quickly. When I mentioned how well they'd covered for me in between sets, I was told "I'm a follower, not a leader: you lead and I'll do my job." A good second clarinetist makes the principal sound better in similar ways.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-02-24 16:12
William wrote:
> Hmmm, just took a "time out' to read LarryB's posting regarding
> the Nielson and wonder 'why' Chicago would even give Williamson
> a second chance after he jumped ship in the first place?
They are in all likelihood contractually obligated, apart from whether or not the Chicago powers are miffed that he was willing to consider a move to New York.
Karl
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2014-02-25 10:13
Quote:
One thing never mentioned in these threads: Some players prefer second chair, are better suited for it, and wouldn't want the principal job if offered.
I believe all the second position players that have been mentioned have auditioned for the principal position.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-02-25 17:35
Tobin wrote:
> I believe all the second position players that have been
> mentioned have auditioned for the principal position.
>
I do wonder, from a practical point of view, how they audition someone who already holds an associate principal position and has been playing as acting principal. What could an audition bring out that playing the same material under actual battlefield conditions won't already have shown?
Karl
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-02-25 17:40
Maybe stating the obvious, I am beginning to think that the selection of a principal clarinetist for major orchestras like NY, Chicago and Phili is more than about playing ability/ability to work with the orchestra/music director.
Not that those on the short list aren't virtuosic, but rather it seems that these orchestras appear to be looking for a name player--a crowd drawer--if you will.
Someone with such a track record often needs to be "stolen" away from another venue. A player with such tenure is often married with children, and has established a life, his/her spouse a career, and kids a school system that it would take considerable compensation to getthem to move from another city, and jump from the "frying pan into the fire."
Nuccio is certainly capable, at the very least, of doing the job, and I think deserves the slot (permanently) independent of whether he wants it. As the orchestra's principal, one would think that the job comes with not only a larger salary than that he's making currently, but even better endorsement/teaching opportunities to line his pockets, without him having to incur the costs associated with uprooting his life, and the orchestra's risks of him leaving.
For players at the caliber of Williamson and Morales, I suspect that money is only 1 factor.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-02-25 15:00
Reread this whole thread, but substitute NFL team for symphony, starting and backup quarterback for principal and 2nd clarinetist, coach for director (not sure where football owner fits it- do any symphonies have a Jerry Jones?). And it all pretty much sounds the same.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: grenadilla428
Date: 2014-02-25 17:19
It's curious to me that John Bruce Yeh and Mark Nuccio haven't been offered the jobs. Not only do they have the afore-mentioned "battlefield" experience, but think of the years they spent sitting next to such well-loved and highly respected musicians anchoring their section. Think of the mentoring that must have taken place during rehearsals, and then the tutelage just in hearing that much repertoire played one chair to the left. The guys are terrific in their own right, but with that extensive an education in practical application...
If the orchestras can't seem to find what they're looking for in auditions, why not just go with what they already have (because what they've got is so excellent) and audition a new second?
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-02-25 23:24
Assuming Nuccio hasn't been offered the slot and turned it down, I am forced to think that this may have at least something to do with money--(shocker).
Looking to stay profitable: something many orchestras, including I am to understand (at one point) the Philadelpha Orchestra is/was not, management may be trying to find the player who will maximize the ratio of orchestra revenue divided by salary. Management may think it worth it to pay for a "Martin Frost," if his compensation more than makes up for itself in ticket/album sales.
Making this choice musically, Nuccio has shown he can fill the role, perhaps no less so than Drucker had a chance to prior to being appointed principal in 1960, and I think, should be given first rights of refusal for the slot if he hasn't already. They can then audition 100 virtuosic players to backfill the openings left by rearranging Nuccio (and maybe Forteza), who if offered the slot, will instantenously and irrevocable say yes.
..or management can start contacting the BSO's clarinetists.....sigh
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Author: William
Date: 2014-02-25 23:36
I can understand the rational for bringing in a "name" to draw more patrons, but only if your talking conductor, concertmaster or soloist. "Name" clarinetist to draw huge audiences? Maybe for those of us who know, but I think the average music lover patron pays little attention to 'who' is sitting in the principal clarinetist chair.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-02-26 00:25
Except that Assistant (Yeh) or Associate (Nuccio) Principal are not really analogous to the backup QB, where the backup almost never plays unless the quarterback gets hurt. In the major symphony orchestras, the Associate or Assistant is pretty nearly equal to the Principal in terms of playing demands, although probably he is paid less and perhaps has less clout in deciding who plays which pieces.
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-02-26 00:38
ThatPerfectReed wrote:
> Management may think it worth it to pay for a
> "Martin Frost," if his compensation more than makes up for
> itself in ticket/album sales.
I have to agree with William here - no one outside the clarinet world has any idea who Martin Frost (or any other NAME clarinetist) is. The extra couple of dozen tickets his name might sell in a season won't amount to a drop in the bucket.
>
> Making this choice musically, Nuccio has shown he can fill the
> role, perhaps no less so than Drucker had a chance to prior to
> being appointed principal in 1960
This is one comparison you definitely can't make. Auditions even for principal positions in major symphonies in the late 1950s or early 1960s weren't anything like they are today. And section players were sometimes hired with the intention of grooming them for the principal position if or when the current principal left (or died). Hiring and firing were both easier then.
Karl
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2014-02-26 01:59
You'd have to look carefully at the union rules, but I am pretty sure "management" doesn't have a say in hiring an orchestra member.
The audition panel decides who gets in. And "in" usually means sitting in for a trial year, before being given tenure or being booted out. Again this decision as far as I know is based on how a player fits in musically and politically with his musicians' colleagues, not so much with management.
According to what I read it certainly sounds like Mr. Williamson left and was not booted out. We all make career decisions. Maybe he likes his colleagues better in Chicago, maybe he and his family doesn't like living in NYC, maybe he used the NYP job as a way to get a nice raise in Chicago, who knows?
I look forward to hearing him play and I look forward to hearing whomever is going to sit in the NYP chair as well. Does anyone actually know if Nuccio applied for the job?
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2014-02-26 02:09
TAS wrote:
> Maybe now that the CSO has brought this fine clarinetist back into the fold, the > will address their slowly deteriorating brass and inner string sections.
When's the last you actually sat in Orchestra Hall and heard the CSO perform? Some of the brass and string players have aged but they are still playing superbly. The Brass played a brass performance during the Midwest Clinic was breath taking and was the talk of the conference.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-02-26 02:33
A fmr. Student's Dad play French Horn at the top of the section in Phila., but not Principal.
When Principal was open, I asked him if he was going to Audition for it, and he said "no" - didn't want it.
But the 2nd or Asst. Players who auditioned, were really good for those Clarinet positions.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-02-26 03:09
Sylvain wrote:
> You'd have to look carefully at the union rules, but I am
> pretty sure "management" doesn't have a say in hiring an
> orchestra member.
>
I assume you aren't including the music director in "management."
Karl
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2014-02-26 20:20
No, I am not including the Music Director as management.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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