 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DrH2O
Date: 2013-11-23 16:28
Hello everyone,
I have a Buffet R13, purchased new about 20 months ago. It cracked after about a year (under register key) and Buffet replaced the joint, although I had to pay for the key transfer. Now about 7 months later, the replacement joint has cracked too (between top two trill key tone holes)! I broke it in slowly, swab it regularly while playing, keep it humidified, dry out the sockets and tone holes before putting it away, warm it up before playing, etc. This is frustrating beyond belief. Now I will have to pay for crack repair, or for the key transfer for a 2nd time if Buffet replaces the joint again.
Am I incredibly unlucky or are cracks just this common? I'm wondering if I should just get it banded rather than worry about another crack in another new joint (if offered).
To add insult to injury, I have a performance tomorrow.
Thanks.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2013-11-23 17:22
In twenty years I've never had a cracked instrument. Ever. Seems strange - I'm interested to hear what the repair techs and others have to say about this.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-11-23 17:47
I own Two Bb, one A one Eb and one bass, One is 6 years old the others are all 45 or more years old. Never had a crack ever. Though I think the manufactures today don't age the wood as they used to and the quality is not generally as good as it used to be, I do have one onl 6 years old, that a clarinet that is going to crack is going to crack, period. If Buffet is willing to send you another top joint get it, if not just have it repaired. It might play better then before. As far a your concert tomorrow, put a piece of tape over the crack so it doesn't leak as a very temporary fix.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-11-23 19:52
Location of crack lends itself well to a carbon fibre band.
Depending on how far crack goes it might be advisable to have the 2 trill toneholes bushed at same time.
At least having cracked now the main stresses may have been relieved so reducing the probability of further cracking.
Like Ed most of my clarinets are between 30 and 80 years old and have never cracked.
Exception is a 1963 R13 (so they could crack even then) which was cracked, banded and pinned some years before I bought it about 30 years ago and it has remained stable ever since.
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2013-11-24 04:25
Let me apologise first to the Buffet Mafia. I have been reading this Bboard for a long time, and my impression fro the many postings about Buffet instruments being sent out from the factory needing a skilled tech to set them up before they can be played, and the problems with cracking, I must say that I have never heard of any problems like this with Bundy's. Am I missing something ?
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-11-24 07:14
It's common for someone who had their clarinet crack, especailly twice (if not more, which can happen), to panic or at least think what went wrong. In the end each person's experience is just fill a different place in the statistics.
I've seen a clarinet crack after a week from new without any playing while in its case. I've seen clarinets abused and never crack. Just a few days I saw a clarinet with a re-opened crack and a new crack, after 20 years that the first crack was repaired and it was fine for those 20 years, with no changes to its conditions at all.
So yes this is luck. This is not that common, but it is common enough that it can happen to some people sometimes like in this case. Others telling you their many clarinets have never cracked is just more statistics.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-24 08:58
Attachment: dgprestigebushedtonehole 001.JPG (703k)
Attachment: dgprestigebushedtonehole 002.JPG (689k)
Attachment: rcprestige 004.JPG (639k)
Attachment: rcprestige 003.JPG (638k)
Attachment: rcprestige 002.JPG (615k)
Carbon fibre bands are far less conspicuous compared to flush banding with nickel silver bands as can be seen on many older clarinets on eBay.
I recently carbon fibre banded two Buffets - a DG Prestige and an RC Prestige that wasn't all that old.
It's not just Buffet clarinets that can crack - it can happen to any wooden clarinet at any point in time.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2013-11-24 09:16
I must admit I've been a bit unlucky with cracks in the top joint of my Tosca.
I'm on the third joint now. It's been a bit frustrating as a love the instrument. I can't fault Buffet as they have sent me replacement joints without any hassle.
At the moment the clarinet is playing better than ever, but I must admit to some paranoia. I watch every grain in the wood...
Chris.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2013-11-24 09:43
I can't help thinking that some of these cracks are do to winter time heating drying out the indoor air. This is the beginning of the heating season and DrH20 lives up north on Rhode Island. Take into consideration the stresses of winter.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-24 10:55
What kind of heating do you have?
The worst kind of heating is the hot air heating with the open vent grilles on the floors all connected to a gas furnace in the basement creating the heat as this takes the humidity right down and wooden artefacts suffer as a result.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DrH2O
Date: 2013-11-24 12:11
Thanks for the insights.
I do live up north, and heating season has just begun, but it has been a very mild fall with few days below freezing and many days still in the 50s and 60s (although not today!). We have baseboard hot water heat so although the humidity is lower than in the summer we don't get the awful drying out that comes with forced hot air. I also practice and store my clarinet in the basement which is more humid than the rest of the house.
That said, I have to assume that the timing isn't coincidental. It just seems that it was unavoidable barring not playing it at all. It looks like the crack started in a tone hole and propagated upward from there.
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Author: DrH2O
Date: 2013-11-24 12:40
Chris P - that band is almost invisible! I've seen a few with carbon fiber bands, but none that blend as well as the work you show there!
Anne
Clarinet addict
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-24 13:53
I have seen them with the carbon fibre bands left visible flush with the joint surface which is alright if you want the repair to remain visible, but I prefer to wrap them up to around 1mm below the joint surface and then use filler (superglue and wood dust) to hide them.
The RC Prestige has three bands - one in between the logo and the badge, the other near the tenon shoulder and the third is hidden under the tenon cork. The DG Prestige has just the one band in between the logo and the badge and I bushed the throat A tonehole with delrin as the crack terminated in it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2013-11-24 22:13
@alanporter:
Most Bundys commonly available now are plastic. They won't crack. Bundy did make some wooden instruments years ago, which (because the _surviving_ ones are older and therefore less crack-prone) you find sometimes on the auction sites.
Plastic doesn't crack unless made to crack by human intervention...
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2013-11-25 13:02
Cracks in clarinets are unpredictable. Cracks in oboes are expected. Proper care does make a difference, but can't assure prevention. If the clarinet still plays the way you want, fix it and forget it. I've heard that some oboists say their oboe played better after the crack.
If the crack goes through a tone hole, best to get it replaced (a bushing installed).
Steve Ocone
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-11-25 13:25
It's easy to blame humidity and temperature change for clarinet cracks because that "takes the heat off" of the basic reasons which are poor wood and inadequate curing. I have a feeling that Buffet Crampon Group , under its current management and structure is in the process of correcting the problems caused by improper management from 1981-2011.
Bob Draznik
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Author: DrH2O
Date: 2013-11-26 18:57
Well, my tech is going to call Buffet to see if they would even consider replacing the replacement joint, otherwise, I will have it banded.
He asked me to mark the crack location with pencil, because it will close up. It hasn't done that yet (3 days post crack), how long does that take?
Anne
Clarinet addict
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-26 19:22
I specifically asked someone to mark the crack on their R13 in pencil so if it did close up, I'd know where it was. They didn't do that and the crack closed up completely by the following day and I couldn't even see it, so as soon as a crack develops, mark it immediately so it'll be obvious if it closes up again.
As I had nothing to go on, I had to make the crack open up again by placing the joint in the freezer (with the toneholes plugged up), then filling the bore with boiling water and surely enough it opened up. A bit drastic, but it did the trick. I pinned the crack as at that time I still hadn't tried carbon fibre banding.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-11-27 03:48
>> He asked me to mark the crack location with pencil, because it will close up. It hasn't done that yet (3 days post crack), how long does that take? <<
It can vary depending on the crack. Between a few minutes and never.
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-11-29 02:12
My dad had this happen in the late '60s- finally they just pinned the last one he got(Mitchell Lurie had picked it out for him as a favor) and he has
been playing it since without trouble.
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Author: borris
Date: 2014-02-20 01:04
Dear Chris! I'm wondering what is actually going on on the image named "rcprestige 003.JPG". As we clearly can see, the new crack (or old?) passing through the band, which also seems to be cracked. Does it mean, the carbon band couldn't stand the force of the expanding wood? Or it's something else? Your explanation would be very appreciated. Best regards!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-02-20 01:36
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,3368/rcprestige%20003.JPG
That's just a surface scratch running across the filler - after I polished the repaired areas I scratched them up with a wire brush to copy the scratched finish Buffet use to blend them in with the original finish. If it was a crack it would run with the line of the grain - this scratch is at an opposing angle to the grain.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2014-02-20 01:38)
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Author: Patrick Akridge
Date: 2014-02-20 19:16
Just curious... Where are in in relation to the world? Is it really humid there or... ?
Patrick
"Everyday in Every way."
"Tomorrow you'll wished you had practiced more, so make every moment in the practice room count"
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Author: Patrick Akridge
Date: 2014-02-20 19:20
Just curious... Where are in in relation to the world? Is it really humid there or... ?
Patrick
"Everyday in Every way."
"Tomorrow you'll wished you had practiced more, so make every moment in the practice room count"
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-02-20 20:07
I'm right on the South Coast of England (West Sussex), but Buffets still crack here.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2014-02-21 04:06
"I'm right on the South Coast of England (West Sussex)"
Which means, in climate terms?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-02-21 06:08
Maritime climate.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-02-21 14:48
Warm summers with moderate rainfall, mild spring and autumn, cold wet winters. No extreme temperature ranges. (Used to live in Chichester).
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-02-21 15:07
I was born in Chi - I live five miles from there now.
Only this year we've had rainfall nearly every day and serious flooding as a result.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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