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 Reed Strength + various other questions
Author: FlyingFish 
Date:   2014-02-05 03:34

So, I think this is pretty long, so umm, if you only have time to read and answer just one instead of all or some of them, then that works too.

1.) I feel like I use a really hard reed strength compared to most people........I've been playing for four years, and currently use a 4.5 V12. I use the M15 mouthpiece, and I've read that it's better to play with harder reeds with closed tip mouthpieces, but I'm not really sure about whether or not it's right, because I feel like the more I play, the softer reeds feel in general (not just a particular reed). I know I was using the wrong strength before, as I was using a 4 V12 with a B45 mouthpiece, and it definitely feels much more comfortable with the M15.

Uhh, and so, I have some questions that probably seem like common sense to most.
-Is moving on to harder and harder reeds normal? I don't know whether it's my embouchure getting used to it, or whether my embouchure in general is just wrong, or whether this happens to everybody and I'm just overthinking it.
-is it normal to be able to play longer with a softer reed compared to a harder one? I feel that my mouth gets tired much faster with a harder reed compared to a soft one

2.) I really don't practice as much as I should (sometime I have a lack of motivation), and perhaps as a result of that, I can only play for so long without my mouth getting tired quickly. I did just move up half a level in hardness lately, and can usually handle 2 hour orchestra rehearsals, but when it comes to practicing at home, I can't even go 30 minutes straight recently. I have gone an hour or so in the past, so I do know it's possible. Obviously, orchestra rehearsals will have moments where only strings play and winds rest, and some easier moments, whereas when I practice at home, I usually try to go over all the parts I can't play (in other words, the intense parts), which probably wears out my mouth much faster. That together with the fact that recently, I have not liked any of my reeds, and switch them around quite often within one practice (I know, this needs to change). Should I just practice longer and more often until my embouchure becomes stronger?

3.) I have a private teacher, and for the most part, I like her. She picks out the most suitable pieces for solo and ensemble, made my music interpretation and expression much better, and made my technique fly. My mother and I also like her personality and find that having a very good teacher and playing together with her definitely helps. However, she has a tendency of being too chatty, taking away a lot of lesson time instead of spending it on music.

Also, she doesn't spend too much time on embouchure, if at all, which is something I feel is kind of necessary. Her viewpoint is that tone is something that will get better in time and with practice, thus doesn't work too much with embouchure. I agree, but worry that my embouchure (yes, I've said this word quite a bit, haven't I?) isn't correct, completely wrong, somewhat okay but could be better, etc.

But those two things I can live with, mostly. I think my biggest concern is that she doesn't push very much. Not as in giving easy music all the time (she gives challenging music), but when I'm not feeling motivated, she doesn't particularly criticize or yell at me for not practicing or getting too much done, which I feel is something that I need. Of course, this is also my fault, for not practicing enough (obviously), something that should be a given, but in the moments when I'm in a slump of practicing/playing, or just lose all motivation to practice, there's nothing that really stops me from not practicing, whereas most people would feel, "I have to practice or I'll get in trouble" or something along those lines.

Well, although I made the complaints much longer than the compliments, I do like this teacher a lot, but want to know if those things would significantly slow down my progress. Would anybody suggest switching teachers, or staying with the same teacher? Though, lately, I've been getting out of my slump so I should be okay with motivation for now.

4.) (I'm sorry for making this so long :/) this question is nice and short, what are some general materials for adjusting reeds? I know sandpaper and reed knives are two, but what are the others, and which would you recommend? How much do they generally cost, and how easy are they to use? I have a pretty bad issue with killing my reeds and not breaking them in well (I'm trying to fix this one by only using reeds for a few minutes when they're new), as well as pretty bad luck with finding reeds that I like, so would learning how to adjust reeds help?

(it's over, thank goodness)
for anybody who read to the end, thank you for dealing with this overly long post :)

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 Re: Reed Strength + various other questions
Author: Wes 
Date:   2014-02-05 10:48

Try #400 silicon carbide abrasive paper for sanding reeds. I only use a reed knife for fixing oboe reeds, never for clarinet reeds. I like medium open mouthpieces and always use #3 V12 reeds, never larger numbers. I play every week with an extremely fine clarinetist sounding great and hardly ever makes a mistake, who uses #2 and #1 1/2 regular Vandoren reeds, one of the best players in Los Angeles. WE both studied with Mitchell Lurie. Good Luck!!

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 Re: Reed Strength + various other questions
Author: muppie 
Date:   2014-02-05 11:07

I have not tried any other reed fixing methods. I got an ATG system and it has been very helpful for me in making most reeds play well whereas before that it was very hard to even make a sound out of. It costs about $79 or so, I bought mine from Amazon but you can buy it directly from ridenourclarinetproducts.com.

This is a video demo of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5d77k6FENQ

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 Re: Reed Strength + various other questions
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2014-02-05 16:04

There are plenty of resources for adjusting reeds, but quite frankly I just break them in and use them.


It's the breaking in that's important. As you say only a few minutes a day, but do this for about 3 days in good humidity weather and 5 days in bad weather (dew point less than 50 degrees fahrenheit).


As for embouchure my guess is that you are using your jaw muscles WAY too much. The jaw can really clamp down. The emphasis needs to be on the lip muscles and the muscles of SURROUNDING tissue......NOT THE UP AND DOWN OF THE JAW!! I'd think a 3 1/2 to 4 strength reed would be more than sufficient on an M15 (I just played on an M15 for a while with a 4 no problem).


Playing should be relaxed, no stress. Perhaps just a little wear to the lower lip caused by the reed/mouthpiece sitting on it all the time. And ideally your hour of practice is really 50 minutes on and 10 minutes off. You probably only really need 3 hours of practice like that a day if you are really REALLY focused and paying close attention to yourself as you play.





................Paul Aviles



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 Re: Reed Strength + various other questions
Author: Tony F 
Date:   2014-02-05 12:38

It sounds as though you're playing on a reed that's just a bit too hard. Your embouchure will certainly develop and strengthen with time and practice but only up to a point, and where that point is differs for all of us. Some of us will never feel the need to play on a reed harder than a 2, others will be just as comfortable with a 4.5. It's not a race or a competition, you just play with what works best for you personally.

You say that you don't practice enough and also that you recently moved to a harder reed. I'd suggest that if you were to back off a full reed number you'd probably be able to play with a great deal more comfort than at present.

I only use a Stanley knife blade and 600 silicon carbide paper for adjusting reeds, and I get about 7 good reeds from a box. If you're changing reeds a lot during practice it tells me that your fixating on the reed as the source of your problem, when the fault probably lies elsewhere

Tony F.

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 Re: Reed Strength + various other questions
Author: cyclopathic 
Date:   2014-02-05 19:09

According to Vandoren 4.5 V12 is middle of the road for M15, recommended range 4-5 (http://www.vandoren.fr/en/mentonniere.html). Too stiff for B45

Q: is moving to harder reed normal?
A: more or less. You move to harder reed b/c of altissimo, to develop embouchure or to match mouthpiece. Not for bragging rights.

sounds like 4.5 could be too much for you at the moment. Try using several reeds during practice. For example warm up for 5-10 min on softer #4, then do 10min (scales, long tones, dynamics, etc) on stiffest new #4.5 you can find in the box and do the rest of practice on softer either #4 or well broken in 4.5. I suppose you could mix V12 and Traditionals, blue box #4 are btw 4 and 4.5 V12 or use #5 at some point.

You would have to experiment with reed strength(#5?)/duration(5min?)/repetition(2 times?) to find the right balance, but I would not go over 10min on stiff reed. This seems to be working for us, helps to avoid fatigue and develop embouchure. After 10min of torture rest of the practice comes with ease!

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 Re: Reed Strength + various other questions
Author: Roxann 
Date:   2014-02-05 19:21

I also go through periods when it's tough to motivate myself to practice. I find that if I get the blues and jazz book I have and play some pieces in it along with the musical accompaniment, it helps motivate me. Also, playing along with youtube videos of pieces we're working on in one or the other of the bands I play with also helps motivate me. I get tired of the same old stuff, week after week after week, and I do need to break it up with something new and fun once in awhile. Also, when I'm in a slump, I'll ask myself why I'm taking lessons. The inevitable, "Because I want to get better" serves as good motivation to practice. Someone posted a quick saying on this board that the most difficult part of practicing is opening the case (or something to that effect). Just go to the case, open it, assemble your clarinet, and the toughest part of the practice is done.

I have one of Ridenour's ATG reed finishing systems mentioned above. I affectionately refer to it as "Reed Finishing for Dummies" because it's so easy to use. However, I DO use it in conjunction with Ed Palanker's information on how to adjust reeds. Using the two together has made customizing my reeds very simple and effective. Go to Ed's website
http://eddiesclarinet.com/eddiesclarinet.com/Welcome.html
and look under REEDS for the handouts that will help you. The diagram of the reed (and how to correct various issues) is the information I use most frequently.

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 Re: Reed Strength + various other questions
Author: Caroline Smale 
Date:   2014-02-06 01:00

The reed strength required is mainly dependant on 3 things
1. The type and facing (lay) of your chosen mouthpiece
2. The state of development of your embouchure
3. Personal sound preference

Re: 1. then for a Vandoren M15 they (VD) suggest that using V12 reeds the range normally would be 4/4.5/5 and I would suggest that you should be at the most on 4.
To show effect of mouthpiece lay then the equivalent VD recommendation for V12 reeds on their B40 mouthpiece is 2.5/3



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