 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-03 02:44
I finally received the ridenour lyrique libertas clarinet, Tom's newest clarinet. I have just assembled it and started playing with it.
My first impressions
I noticed some excess glue outside the register hole to glue the register tube I suppose, and probably in some other places too. This doesn't affect playability though.
Most notably:
- the register key is higher than the thumb hole. I will need to get used to this or file / shave off the extra padding thing.
- The spring resistance is softer than the Buffet E12F. I'm sure this can be adjusted - but it's easier to just get used to it. It doesn't affect my playing anyway. I just noticed the difference.
- The register key is the same shape as "normal" i.e. the same as Buffet or any other clarinet, and not the funky "ergonomic" register key that I saw for 576BC on youtube.
The bell fits into the lower joint much more loosely than my E12F (my E12F bell is a bit tight). However the lower to upper joint is tigher. Anyway this is probably not important.
I just tried playing it a little bit.. and it feels easier to play and to produce nicer sound than my E12F (remembering that I'm a total beginner). There is a significant difference in the ease of playability. Maybe quite a bit of it is due to the mouthpiece that came with the Lyrique vs the stock MP that came with E12F. I tried the Ridenour MP with the E12F clarinet + barrell, and it does feel easier / sound nicer too.
I'll need more time to compare the subtle sound quality of the two.
Post Edited (2014-02-03 09:43)
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-02-03 18:31
I do not find it listed, even on the Ridenour site. Thanks for the info. Send more!!
richard smith
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-03 18:47
Richard, it's a brand new design, supposed to be better / an improvement over 576bc. Check out their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/wm.ridenour
What came in the case / box:
- 2 barrels
- A Mouthpiece (you can order without one)
- A cotton swab
- A small cork grease
Just now I weighed the clarinet including one barrel attached, but without the mouthpiece. It is 10 grams less than my E12F. This is probably negligible, but somehow the Lyrique does feel lighter.
The mouthpiece that came with it (RAMT36) is nice. I haven't been able to play the altissimo range using my E12F + stock buffet MP, but I was able to and quite easily with the RAMT36 MP on the Lyrique. I haven't tried playing the altissimo using the MP on E12F.
I still need to compare more about how it sounds against my E12F but so far about the only thing I don't like about it is the fact that the register key is much higher than the hole. I think the main issue is the hole is not raised enough to meet the register key. I might send Tom a question about it. Apart from this, I like the Lyrique.
My next thing to do is to check it against the tuner app on my phone.
Stay tuned! (pardon the pun)
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-02-03 13:59
I had a similar difficulty with a length of register key, I believe on an Arioso. I used instant glue to add a metal extension ( actually a dime coin ). Crude, but it worked.
richard smith
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-03 14:33
Oh when I said "high" I meant the distance from the clarinet body, rather than the distance from the thumb hole.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-02-03 20:11
The sound is significantly better with the Libertas.
The E12F is a student level Clarinet, and as such has less depth to it's sound. I had a gorgeous one that I sold. (I had hand picked from 5 for a student). It was very good, but not like an R-13. Much better than an E11 though.
The Libertas is a Professional Clarinet, and does sound like one.
Much, much more depth to the sound.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-02-03 21:10
I hope Tom Ridenour will attend ClariFest 2014 at Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, in the last week of July and bring some Libertas clarinets to try. I'm looking for a good spare clarinet for about $2000 or less and I'd love to try the Libertas next to the Backun Protege. Looks like I'll be buying one of these. Thanks for the head's up.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-02-03 16:53
I doubt Tom will come. Testing at a ClarFest is minimal, and surface at best.
I've never (ever) liked anything I tried at a ClariFest, as it's not the place to really sit down, and give it a fair testing.
Both are great instruments (Tom and Morrie's).
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-02-04 01:17
David: I agree that the noisy conditions at ClarinetFests and trade fairs anywhere are simply not conducive to trying out a clarinet. That is why, if one of our clarinets strikes a player's fancy, I go to people's respective hotels in order to let them try out our instruments in suitable conditions. Of course, playing a new instrument is a bit like marriage: you have to live with the person for a while before finding out whether you are really compatible.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-04 07:16
Another thing I find different with Lyrique is the key for B natural (the one that's vertical pointing up for the left pinky finger to press). It seems too easy to bump the other key next to it, in comparison to Buffet E12F which seems to have been designed perfectly (at least for me) to avoid it.
The difference is that the B key on the Buffet is slightly lower (closer to the body of the clarinet) than the other key next to it. This slight difference makes it easier to distinguish the two keys by feel.
On the lyrique the two keys are the same height (not length).
The Lyrique can be adjusted I'm sure but how do I bend the key to adjust it without breaking it?
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-02-05 02:24
Don't bend it, get used to it. With assiduous practice you'll forget all about it.
B.
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2014-02-05 09:13
I totally disagree with Bruno's "get used to it" comment. I find that adjusting the left hand pinky B lever slightly higher than the adjacent C# lever makes any clarinet much easier to play smoothly. I usually do this for any clarinet I service with good feedback. Of course, this is a matter of personal preference, but most professionals bend many keys to get the instrument to best fit their hands. One size does not fit all.
Jerry
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-02-05 19:24
Are they sold through the Ridenour site? I see no mention of them on that site.
richard smith
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-02-05 21:19
Yes - they are brand, brand new.
Tom also has very liberal payment plans, so they are quite affordable.
I just got my Ridenour C Clarinet checked out by my Tech - it seals at a .3 which is REALLY good (ideally below a 1 or .75 is great).
It's good enough to play in the Phila. Orchestra.
Nice centered sound, spot on intonation.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-02-06 01:25
Dear David Blumberg,
I also have a Rendenour C clarinet, which I am delighted with. My high C is very unstable. Is yours? Have you had anything done to it or have you found a mouthpiece that stabilizes it? I am in the market for any suggestions.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-02-05 21:04
Ruben. When you play the high C (2nd leger line) make sure you have your left 'pinkie' on the E/B lever and the right 'pinkie' on the Eb lever ('touch points') This will not affect the intonation and will help to give a feeling of stability. Also, just for fun try the 'harmonic ' fingering for high C (Sp / xox /xxxEb) While you're at it also try the 'harmonic' fingering for high B (Th/ xox /xxx)
I have the Lyrique RCP-570C and use Ridenour's Eroica mouthpiece and have no problem with the high C.
BJV.
"The Clarinet is not a horn"
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-02-07 00:35
Barry: Thank you for these fingerings, one of which I didn't know. The clarinet is not a horn, but can be used as a shoehorn if you put the mouthpiece end into the heel of the shoe. The bell end doesn't work!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-02-06 19:57
I use that as my Tag
Do you know if there is anyway I can get it into my thread automatically without having to retype it every time ?
I see you have your e-mail address as yours.
(rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com)
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2014-02-07 01:00)
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-02-07 02:30
Ok , thanks for that Mark, I'll try & figure that out.
Done it , I think , lets see what happens.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2014-02-07 02:33)
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-02-07 02:33
Take two
Nope, hasn't worked. Perhaps it's got to be accepted first by the BBoard.
Wait and see.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2014-02-07 02:35)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-02-07 00:18
As for the speaker key being too high off the deck - that's easy enough for your tech to sort out. They can either trim the silencer cork down with a sharp razor or remove that and glue a new 0.5mm thick piece on the underside of the touchpiece, then bend the key so the touchpiece hasn't got as much of a gap between it and the body (making it more comfortable for your left thumb), but still making sure the speaker pad opens sufficiently.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-02-07 06:00
Their will be more info coming soon.....we will have a YouTube video up shortly and our website will be updated in the near future.
The MSRP is going to be roughly, were still deciding the exact number, $1600 with a Pro mpc and $1495 with no mpc.
If you'd like any info beyond that please contact us directly as obviously this is not the place....I sort of feel as if whet I posted may not be appropriate for the forum, if ive crossed any line regarding self promotion I apologize.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-02-07 22:24
Hello everyone,
I just received a very nice email from Ted Ridenour concerning the Libertas (which I believe is pronounced something like Le-bear'-tas with a short "e" after the L.) and received permission to reveal all that follows.
They have just put up a video which appears to me to be very professionally done. Here's the clickable link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9lMX_4UV_U
The pricing is almost exactly as stated above by Ted, but may be subject to change slightly upward in the near future.
He also stressed their 0% financing option done on a case by case basis arranged by simply giving them a call. I personally don't know of other clarinet sales organization that offers this type of financing which, I believe, should make it easier on the buyer's budget.
Ted told me that at a very recent "clarinet day" at a local Texas college, one of their professors compared the tone quality to the Leblanc Concerto. (I've never heard a Concerto, however, this personal subjective observation may be of use to some of you players.)
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation what so ever with Ridenour Clarinet Products.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2014-02-07 18:40
With all due respect to Tom, unless he's coined the name Libertas as a new name that just coincidentally is spelled the same as the Latin term for "freedom" or "liberty," it's pronounced "lib-er-tas" with the the accent on the first syllable.
Then again, it's his clarinet, so who the heck am I to be challenging him!
B.
(Awaiting the Libertas that's due to arrive on Tuesday, and a big fan of Tom's bass and C clarinets.)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-02-07 19:31
Hi Bruce,
According to the following pronunciation guide: http://www.forvo.com/word/libertas/ , the first (USA) and fourth (Spain) pronunciations had the accent on the first syllable while the second (Spain) and third (Italy) had it on the second syllable. However, all of them pronounced the "i" as a long "e" and the "ber" word section were all pronounced as "bear".
At least, that's what it sounds like to my ears!
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-02-08 01:14
will the other professional B-flat Lyrique be discontinued?
richard smith
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-02-07 20:56
You know, Richard, I thought about that myself, so I sent another email to Ted and was told that the Lyrique 576 is "still available" and is a "very good clarinet" played by beginners to professionals (his words). He also told me that the Libertas is "simply a better instrument which is why it costs 50% more".
I think it's nice to have lots of choices.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-02-07 23:42
Nice resonant sound. Good overtone profile. Depth and clarity in the lower register. No spread, ballooning out, or dullness. Very promising.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-02-08 09:50
Quote from Seabreeze."Nice resonant sound. Good overtone profile. Depth and clarity in the lower register. No spread, ballooning out, or dullness. Very promising".
Sounds like it's the same as my Lyrique RCP-567BC.
BJV
"The Clarinet is not a horn"
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2014-02-08 09:56)
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-08 11:20
I am guessing that the Libertas is an improvement / refinement over 576bc. Things that Tom found could be improved might have been implemented on the Libertas.
I still need to do more comparison against my teacher's R13.
Hey.. mine doesn't have the hand inscribed serial number, like he did on the youtube video :(
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-02-08 23:13
"Huge improvement" ?
I'd believe it if there was an 'improvement, but HUGE ?
I'll take that with a grain of salt thank you.
BJV
"The Clarinet is not a horn"
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Author: GaryH
Date: 2014-02-09 00:55
We'll see. Maybe this model will be a little more lively than it's predecessor, or maybe that's a characteristic of rubber clarinets. Good intonation is nice...:)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-02-09 02:48
I'll say this:
I tried the Arioso, and it wasn't for me. At that point I wasn't convinced that hard rubber was an ok material for a Pro Clarinet.
Tried this new Model, and liked it a lot!
Didn't try the last previous model, but from what Tom told me personally, it sounds like a different animal.
Loved the G1, and that opened my mind to try the Lyrique Libertas
So that's the salt to season your barbie with;)
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2014-02-09 02:52)
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-02-09 01:26
If we read David Pino's chapter on clarinet tuning, it tells us that it is impossible to construct a clarinet totally in tune with itself. It's a "better here, worse there" trade off. He says that clarinet makers do their best to balance out the out-of-tune hole locations but it's impossible for them to be perfect.
I've found that to be the case in my own clarinet(s).
B>
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-02-09 08:40
Hi everyone,
After reading all of the above comments, I began to wonder just how much better the Libertas was over the 576. So, I again wrote to Ted and straight forward asked him about this. I received permission to reveal his response which is as follows:
"You can't judge this kind of thing without playing it. If your happy with your current clarinet by all means keep playing it and enjoy. However, just because the improvements to the instrument aren't centered on cosmetic changes (which of course have zero affect on performance quality) does not mean improvements have not been made. A clarinet professor from a very prominent music school located near us came by a few weekends ago and purchased a Libertas declaring it a better instrument than his Concerto in more or less every way he could judge such a thing. This is a clarinetist who we've known for years and who has played the 576bc many times but never decided to buy one, he purchased the Libertas after two hours of testing give or take and has told us several times since how "blown away" he is by this instrument. We're in no way saying the 576bc is bad.......the Libertas is just better.......this opinion has been shared by literally everyone who has played it including players who have played both models". Ted R.
There was more to his email and after reading it all, I came away with the impression that Ted and Tom aren't the least bit worried or concerned about skeptism in his new clarinet.
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-02-09 08:59
Cosmetic improvements can marginally improve performance in some cases (better mechanism etc.), I shouldn't have stated that as an absolute, I apologize. However, I hope the idea that I was trying to convey was clear......just because an instruments improvements aren't cosmetic doesn't mean their were no improvements made to it.
Ted R.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-09 09:15
Ted, I think what we're curious about is to know what exactly are these non cosmetic improvements? Is it in the dimensions / angle / shape of the inner bore, is it in the location of the tone holes? Is it in the hard rubber material formulation that is slightly different to the 576bc? Or is it a trade secret?
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-02-09 09:33
It has to do with the overall acoustical design.
I can try to have Tom get into it but short of posting diagrams, which I've never seen a manufacturer do or be asked to do, outlining dimensions (which would fall under "trade secrets" by just about anybody's definition) I'm not sure we will be able to satisfy the curiosity/demands. That is why I mentioned the effect of the changes. The same players who have decided not to purchase the 576bc in the past have purchased the Libertas after trying it for no more than a few hours. We don't pay for endorsements so the proof will be in the response of customers who try the horn.....this will bear itself out in the coming weeks and months. I'm personally very confident about the response we will get due to Toms reaction to the clarinet along with the reaction of those who have tried it.
The best thing I can think to say is what Mr. Blumberg (who is not a paid endorser, we do not play that game) said earlier...."play it don't talk it....".
Beyond the trade secret side the mechanism is, in our opinion and in the opinion of every player that has tried it (and also tried the 576bc), an upgrade.
Ted R.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-09 09:54
I'm satisfied with the answer "there are changes in the overall acoustical design, i.e. the dimensions / locations etc are slightly different / improved compared to the 576bc". I was not asking for the exact diagrams / dimensions, because even if you showed it to me, I would have no clue what it really means
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-02-09 07:41
I assume that there will be an A Libertas to match the Bb Libertas.
And perhaps even a C Libertas.
BJV.
"The Clarinet is not a horn"
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-02-09 11:14
A.....yes, in time. We obviously hope sooner than later but I can't committ to a particular date at this time.
C clarinet- No. At least it's not planned.
Ted R.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-09 18:11
Go to www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com and call them up. Tip: Since you seem to be in Brazil, you can use Skype to call their 1800 number. It's free for you. You'd need to pay + shipping, but you can return it in 5 days if you don't like it and you'll only be paying for the shipping fee.
I've had mine for more than 5 days.. I don't want to return it
This is me playing the Lyrique Libertas (I'm just a beginner though, so don't expect fancy stuff)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OETvSNpXr6I
Post Edited (2014-02-09 19:11)
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Author: Siq
Date: 2014-02-09 21:57
Thank you very much . Actually, I am going to be living in the US this year, so it will probably be easier for me to try it. Also, if you don't mind, I might PM you asking some stuff, as you currently own the two clarinets I'm interested in (Lyrique Libertas and E12F) and, like me, is no professional clarinetist.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-02-10 22:14
New video by Ridenour on youtube today
richard smith
Post Edited (2014-02-10 22:23)
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-23 08:45
After playing with the Lyrique for about a month now. I found more things about the keywork that I prefer more on my E12F than on The Lyrique. I'm not sure if I should explain it here or just send it to Ted as a feedback. I'm not sure if it'll get to Tom though. And I'm not sure if I should just "deal with it and adjust" or am I supposed to be able to say I don't like it this way and prefer the keys that way.
In all likelihood, the way the keys are shaped / positioned is probably what Tom prefers over the E12F so in this case, I guess it's a matter of take it or leave it?
I can try to bend some of the keys myself (at the moment I can think of about 3-4 keys I'd like changed / bent / reshaped / repositioned). I might look into it when I get really frustrated as a last resort.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-02-23 09:56
I believe your best recourse is to send an email to Tom. It is my understanding that his son, Ted, reads the emails and then discusses the email content with Tom. I truly believe they will both want to know of your concerns and you will probably receive a return email very quickly.
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-02-23 11:27
Feel free to email us;
Key work involves a great deal of personal preference.....as just about any player on this board could attest to; its not uncommon to spend large amounts of money at a repair techs having the instrument adjusted to their liking. From what you describe, a few keys needing to be bent, your talking about a very minimal amount of work which you could likely do yourself(keys are designed to be adjusted/bent so that the mechanism can be adjusted to the players liking).
Just shoot us an email and we will get back to you in short order.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: GaryH
Date: 2014-02-23 22:59
Muppie, rather than freak out about how one clarinet's keys are different from another, I'd suggest you pick a clarinet and play it. If you want to get used to the Ridenour just play it. Don't worry about the position of the keys. You just started learning to play clarinet. As time goes by you'll find all kinds of things to concern you. From your video I see that you have a good start. Just practice and quit worrying about things that don't amount to much...........Now, I'm going to go practice and try to quit obsessing about my thumb rest.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-02-24 19:48
do other makers select the two sections from many to make one clarinet?
richard smith
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Author: Annie H
Date: 2014-07-01 14:44
muppie,
I am interested what did the Lyrique Libertas cost?
Annie.
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-07-01 20:47
Annie
The Libertas is $1750 without a mouthpiece and $1845 with a professional mouthpiece.
That is a small increase from when it was first introduced back in late January/early February.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-07-05 12:04
Ted: How long does it take to get one?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-07-05 19:33
Currently estimating 10-14 business days before shipping but we try to operate on the "under promise over deliver" principle so.....it would likely be faster.
Ted R.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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