 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-01-30 02:59
Maybe the first question that should be asked is what bboard members think of the relative degree of importance of intonation correction keys for ![[E3]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/e3.gif) and ![[F3]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/f3.gif) on standard (i.e. non-Basset) B flat and A clarinets.
I'm gathering that it's something nice to have for the advanced clarinetist, but maybe not top on the list of attributes we seek in a horn--especially given all the years such a feature was never offered--and even today, the fact that only a limited subset of manufacturer's models have this.
But even assuming we could all agree it would be a nice feature to have, (although it's reasonable to assume we wouldn't), I'm getting the sense that manufacturers have not only implemented this using different types of keys pressed by different fingers, but have made decisions to automatically trigger this intonation correction, or only have it on demand.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the sense that in Buffet's current line up, models that offer this feature do so when the use wishes to implement it. Maybe this differs across the Buffet product lines available in each market. Maybe Buffet or a 3rd party will implement an automatic version of the correction.
The same seems to be the case for Yamaha:
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/winds/clarinets/bb-clarinets/ycl-csgii/?mode=model--even though they effect this with the right thumb, while Buffet with the right pinky.
And yet versions of Buffet's Elite appeared to engage this pitch correction automatically, linking it up with the octave key.
Just as would appear to be the case for Selmer, based on a picture posted today on this bboard of a Recital model. (Has this changed--it doesn't appear on pictures at the Selmer Paris website? http://www.henriselmerparis.com/clarinets/product.php?model=B15ODY nor does it appear to be discussed.
Morrie Backun appears to also be of the "automatically engage" school of thought.
I guess in the clarinet of my dreams I'd like the pitch correction key to be easily switchable by me to either automatic or an on demand setting. But does anyone have knowledge on why any of these companies went in the directions they did, when they did, and which method (automatic or on demand) any bboard member would think better.
Cheers.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-30 14:04
I can only suspect the automatic versions are favoured by some makers so it works by simply using standard fingerings without any conscious input from the player whereas the Buffet and Yamaha/Oehler manual versions the player has to be aware of using them.
I know a Tosca player who has been caught out with the E/F correction key on her clarinet - she misplaced her right pinky on it for a C and then hit the normal F/C key instead of the Ab/Eb key when playing C-D-Eb, so she got C-D-C instead.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-30 15:58
You may be over thinking this issue. Your pitch depends on your "situation" as much as the note itself. For instance, the only times you would actually need to, or want to, blat out a low "E" are pretty scarce. I would even say that there are more occasions were your playing a low "E" at a pianissimo and actually want the advantage of it being naturally lower (since keeping it down to pitch may not be so easy). Again (from a previous current post), if you look at top end German clarinet makers, they have incredibly refined clarinets that do NOT have the correction key on them.
Furthermore you add a mechanical complexity with "automatic" keying systems where more than one thing has to be coordinated to act in concert. Just look at the 1 and 1 "Bb" for instance. I'd be willing to bet a good percentage of you RIGHT NOW don't have this adjusted quite right. If the pad between your left hand first and second fingers does not go down completely, you either get no "Bb" or one that is not resonant enough. If, however, the left hand pad comes down too soon, the pad at the top of the bottom joint will not seal and you lose resonance in the entire bottom half of your clarinet.
OR
Think of the alternate "C#" for either pinky. If you are not coming off of a "C" then you are engaging two keys at once. Certainly more a consideration for a tech to balance out the spring tensions but many players (myself included) are very picky about getting an evenness of "weight" amongst these keys and getting it just right (to seal properly and move quickly and comfortably enough) can take several days of tweaking.
I would prefer not to over complicate what is already a good thing. And this more than anything may be why various makers decide either not to get into the fray or only offer nominal fixes (the Tosca only corrects for the "F" and quite frankly I think any correction down there that doesn't involve the bell would be the wrong answer).
The clarinet of your dreams is one that plays evenly of intonation across all its scales with the least effort with the the way YOU play. You can add or subtract any number of mechanical gizms but the bottom line is that what's in your hand only serves as a tool that enables you to get to the music.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-30 16:23
The vent hole on the Tosca and Divine is drilled below the F tonehole and immediately above the tenon (just like an older Marigaux oboe d'amore and cor anglais low B vent which is on the body and not on the bell) so it has marginal effect on low F but more profound effect on low E.
For a low F correction vent to be more useful, it should be placed as on Oehlers and Selmer Recitals in between the F and F# toneholes (but nearer the F tonehole).
Nearly all the recordings I've heard of Dvorak's 8th have the flat low E in the 3rd movement in last note of the descending arpeggio in the bar before A (in both clarinet parts), so this is an instant an automatic low E/F vent would be useful:
http://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/6/66/IMSLP20014-PMLP08825-Dvorak_Sym8_Cls.pdf
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2014-01-30 16:25)
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-01-30 16:56
I'm definitely not overthinking Paul, having questioned the very need for this key in the first place.
Your point about automatic mechanisms here requiring yet more need for key alignment is certainly valid although I would like to think (maybe foolishly) that players who own such high end horns with such correction features are apt to be ones that would keep their instruments in good repair.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-01-30 21:18
On all my clarinets (Lyrique. Schreiber.Jupiter.Amati) the low E is slightly sharp and have to use a 'relaxed' embouchure to get it down in pitch. It's not much of a problem really other than that the tonal quality is different.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2014-01-30 21:22)
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2014-01-30 23:14
Attachment: IMG_0286.JPG (1761k)
Definitely on demand for the musical situations Paul talks about above. I would never willingly go back to a clarinet that didn't have the mechanism.
Paul also brings up a great point about the automatic mech across the upper and lower joints. I almost prefer that my 1/1 be slightly off for safe mind of knowing the lower rings have a perfect seal. I'd be miserable being at the mercy of some automatic mechanism.
An on demand E and F for me is essential. Take the first movement Weber's Grand Duo. Four measures after A needs and the FF low E 8 before B needs it. I can't tell you how many professional recordings there are where the performer is obnoxiously flat.
http://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/4/4e/IMSLP58054-PMLP119121-Weber__Carl_Maria_von_-_Gran_Duo_Concertante_op._48._Clarinet_part.pdf
I've also attached a picture of where the E/F mech is on my clarinets. I think the attempt to keep the mechanism away from the bell is because of the trend of boehm players to change their bells. I exchanged my bell for a shorter one for my Bb because of my own person preference. Keywork would have made this a pain.
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