 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Khefren Sackey
Date: 2014-01-29 07:29
Hello folks,
I'm currently in college studying music and everyone is telling me that i need a professional clarinet. I am currently using a Prelude by Conn-Selmer CL711 Student Model. It has a couple of minor issues, so i understand that i do need a new clarinet. But nobody has been able to explain why i need a PRO clarinet. I've always been told that the instrument doesn't make the player, the player makes the instrument. So what is the big deal about professional clarinets? What advantages do they have over student and intermediate model clarinets? What benefits will I get from making the transition? What are the improvements? If i do need a pro then what recommendations do you have for me in terms of searching? So many questions and I hope that you folks can educate me on the subject.
Thank you!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-29 03:27
Don't think of it as "pro" clarinet, just a a really well made clarinet. Would you rather have a store brand English muffin or a Thomas'? Would you rather go to Ball State or Harvard? Is ripple just as good as Don Perinon?
A well made clarinet features accurately tooled tone holes and a bore to match so internal pitch is as good as you can get in the medium. They will have keys that (rather than some such material as pot metal) are sturdy yet malleable so that they can be adjusted without fear of breakage. Pads should seal properly so there are no leaks under key cups and you get the full sonority of the horn. Corks will be installed so that key heights and ring heights will aid intonation and make for a comparatively silent mechanism.
The proper materials and hours of craftsmanship that goes into a GOOD horn has the affect of adding to the cost, but in return you get an instrument that......and here is the punchline...........DOESN'T GET IN YOUR WAY in your quest to make music. A less well made horn may hold you back for any number or reasons.
I recommend top line Yamahas because they are so consistent in manufacture that it would be hard to find one with truly objectionable intonation issues. And they are pretty much performance ready, with no re-padding or overhauling required. Whereas the Buffet R13 (still the "standard" out there) can be problematic in finding the really good ones. Lastly, even though the prices have gone up on the Yamahas, they still represent a great value for the dollar invested. There are all sort of esoteric manufacturers of horns, but you don't need to spend more than $3000 (or so) for a new clarinet that is about as good as they get. And if you are willing to purchase a used "good horn," the cost will go down a percentage.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: hgp_atx
Date: 2014-01-29 05:12
Generally if you are looking for a R13, which I have, you need to play it before you buy to make sure it's a good horn. Don't buy R13's online, use Craigslist to look for ones in the area or go to a local music store and try it out before buying. I used craigslist and found one in my local area. I tried it and my teacher tried it. We both liked it and it was a good find so I bought it. Also, since I said craigslist, you would be in the market for a used horn. Gernerally, the used ones in good condition are better than the new Buffets. I got mine for $1700, but it plays like a brand new top of the line Buffet. However if you don't want to go through that trouble, take Paul's advice.
I, just like you, was wondering why everyone was telling me I needed a "professional horn" and a better MPC. I had a Yamaha YCL-450N for about 3 years and I thought it was pretty good. When I got a new teacher in Freshman year of HS, she told me I needed "Brand new equipment." As she upgraded my equipment as I got better on my current horn, I sounded better and better. Then I got a completely "new" horn, which is my R13. The difference in sound quality was and still is noticable. So the main difference between a pro and intermediate and student model horn is tone quality. And a better Mouthpiece helps as well, more than the rest of the instrument.
Hugh Pauwels
Austin, TX
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-01-29 10:44
Hugh, might it be possible that the reason you sounded better and better was because of the improvement in your technique as you advanced? Perhaps not entirely, but certainly to some extent. Personally, I've played a Yamaha 450 and find that with a good mouthpiece it is a better horn in terms of tuning and intonation than many, if not most, R13's. While the R13 has become pretty well the standard basic pro horn, I think that unless you find an exceptional one they are over-rated. I'm with Paul here, if I were looking for a pro-level horn I'd probably go for a top end Yamaha, new or used.
Tony F.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-01-29 10:26
> everyone is telling me that i need a professional clarinet. ...
> But nobody has been able to explain why i need a PRO clarinet. I've always
> been told that the instrument doesn't make the player, the player makes
> the instrument. So what is the big deal about professional clarinets? What
> advantages do they have over student and intermediate model clarinets?
> What benefits will I get from making the transition?
you don't get snubbed?
> What are the improvements?
Paul pretty much nailed it, you get a better made clarinet which sounds better and easier to play in tune. It would likely stay issue-free longer. +1 on Yamahas they are good and very consistent. Or get R13 if you don't wanna be bullied again.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-29 18:30
I play older Selmer CTs and Series 9s as my main clarinets as that's what I like. I also have an old plastic Yamaha YCL-24 for outdoor and parade use which has been completely restored to the same level as my Selmers. The YCL-24 is pretty much a Series 9 copy.
While I can't fault the tuning, response or any mechanical aspect of the Yamaha (which is built to a very high standard), it does lack the depth of tone when pushed which the Selmers take in their stride when using exactly the same mouthpiece/reed/ligature set-up for both. There is a definite limit as to what the Yamaha (an entry level clarinet) can do in comparison to the Selmers (pro level clarinets).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-29 19:03
Chris, is the difference in the material (plastic vs wood)?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-29 14:14
It seems to suggest that as I can't see any other determining factor.
Although this will be scoffed at by physics boffins that state in black and white that materials have no impact on tone quality.
I give you a perspex violin and a traditionally made wooden one, both made to the same dimensions and corresponding material thicknesses. When played, which one sounds better? The wooden one does. Why? Because it does as plastic and wood are very different materials with very different densities and acoustical properties. The plastic one uses the same material throughout its build whereas the traditionally built wooden one uses different woods in strategic places for acoustical reasons, most notably the softwood spruce soundboard compared to the hardwood maple back and sides of the body.
In the case of these clarinets, the Yamaha is made from ABS resin which is much lighter in density than grenadilla.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2014-01-29 14:24)
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-01-29 19:28
All makes of note turn out a few artist quality instruments along with many average ones. Try many if practical, of all makes and models, but in any case, try before buy.
richard smith
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-01-29 16:12
My main gripe with many plastics is that it propagates key noise (slapping etc) far better to the mouthpiece than wood. No such issue with hard rubber or "plastics" that are of a similar weight/density as wood. In clarinets, unlike eg brass winds, it's the inert mass of the body that counts.
--
Ben
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-01-29 21:33
Whefren, you didn't make clear whether you're a Clarinet Performance major or not. If you're going for, say, a Bachelor's in Music Education, the equipment you're expected to bring to the table would likely be "the best I could afford" versus "the very best I could find".
However, going off to college with a student-level example of your major instrument does demonstrate a certain lack of commitment to the art. You won't be able to look yourself or your professional colleagues straight in the eye and say that you've given yourself every possible advantage.
The peace of mind that comes from having sought out and invested in exceptional equipment can count for an awful lot when the pressure is on during an audition or a performance.
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Author: Khefren Sackey
Date: 2014-01-29 21:13
thank you all so much, i really have a much better understanding of the
subject now. I've been doing research on various clarinets, and id like to know your opinions on the Ridenour Lyrique 576 bc.
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Author: Khefren Sackey
Date: 2014-01-29 21:16
and Ursa, i am a Music Education major. Its not like i dont have commitment, i just dont have the funds as well.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-30 05:12
The Ridenours are decent clarinets.
I also don't want to come off as an elitist !!!! You should, in my opinion, get the best equipment you can reasonably procure, but budget CAN be a harsh task master.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-01-30 00:31
Since you're going for a B.M.E. you can be creative in pursuing a professional clarinet and save yourself quite a few bucks. There are some excellent vintage models by Leblanc and Selmer that aren't used much by professional symphony players these days, but are still wonderful instruments and more than worthy of your consideration. You'll want to discuss this possibility with your clarinet teachers--chances are, you'll be able to develop a shopping list of models that both your budget and their performance standards could live with.
And as far as the Ridenour Lyrique 576BC goes, I play one--it's one of my two main performance instruments. Tom Ridenour does a masterful job setting these up, and my Lyrique performs as-new after a couple years' worth of use. Tuning is impeccable, evenness of response between the registers is superb, and the instrument fits my smallish hands like it was made just for me.
That said, the Lyrique is a very dark, even syrupy sounding instrument. I had an awful time coming up with a mouthpiece/ligature/reed setup that yielded the ring, liveliness, and projection that I need from a clarinet. Eventually I did find a solution in having an old Chedeville-blank mouthpiece reworked by Brad Behn. Now that my setup is all dialed in on the Lyrique, I am quite pleased with it.
One thing seldom mentioned about the Lyrique is the fact that its hard rubber body is less affected by temperature extremes than plastic clarinets are. I've played in 55-degree rehearsal halls and out in the sunshine on a 95-degree day and have had no issues at all with the tuning drifting off course or with the keys binding up or getting sloppy. The Lyrique just works, no matter what.
I hope this addresses some questions you may have about the Lyrique!
Post Edited (2014-01-30 06:06)
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-30 00:49
Ursa, which mouthpiece did your Ridenour Lyrique come with? I just ordered one and expecting it to arrive at my doorstep today or tomorrow. It came with their best mouthpiece that they recommended, the RAMT36. I am hoping I won't need to buy a different mouthpiece.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-01-30 00:54
Muppie, my Lyrique came with an Encore mouthpiece. It's the only Ridenour piece I've auditioned, so I can't advise you one way or another regarding the RAMT36.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-31 17:48
Dear Ursa,
I don't exactly know how you measure the pitch in different temperatures but I am guessing that your ensemble also moved pitch center with the prevailing temperatures. Pitch is determined by the temperature of the air column. This is why tubas are affected considerably MORE and piccolos the LEAST with clarinets and trumpets somewhere in between (which is also partly why NO ensemble is gonna sound great outside at 30 degrees fahrenheit!).
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-01-31 15:31
Hi, Paul--
Regardless of what the rest of the ensemble is doing pitch-wise, my electronic tuner indicates that the Lyrique tends toward less flatness when cold than the plastic clarinets in my playing rotation, and requires fewer tuning corrections in response to the instrument warming up or cooling down.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-02-01 06:41
Thanks for this clarification. I really want to know more about why this is the case...........I am a bit baffled by this effect.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Khefren Sackey
Date: 2014-02-01 08:02
Thank you all for your wonderful feedback once again! It was much appreciated. The only thing left to do now is raise money!
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