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 tounge technique
Author: gazster 
Date:   2014-01-27 00:53

hey I got a question what do u use this tounge technique I heard about, what does it achieve? I honestly thought u just blow lol I take it the tounge thing is for a later stage in the clarinet playing. I'm totally new to woodwind u see and just wondering if I need to worry about this yet? in beginner book and DVD I havnt seen the tounge technique mentioned yet. cheers for the advice.

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: Lelia Loban 2017
Date:   2014-01-26 20:11

Tonguing means that while you continue to blow into the clarinet, you touch the reed lightly and briefly with the tip of your tongue. While your tongue is on the reed, the reed can't vibrate and the sound stops until you take your tongue off the reed. Usually, you tongue just as you change notes, to make each note more articulate and to emphasize it a little bit or a lot, depending on how forcefully you tongue.

There are a few fancy, advanced ways of tonguing, but the basic technique is easy and you can start right now if you want to. Try this without the clarinet to get the idea: Sing up the scale and as you make the sounds for the notes C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, instead of singing those names of the notes, sing, "ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta." Now just try the same thing with the clarinet instead of your voice for as many tones as you've learned how to play.

Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: ThatPerfectReed 
Date:   2014-01-27 01:30

Okay..I'll field this and risk it being posed by someone rhetorically for all the double entendre that a title like “Tonhue Technique” might furnish.

Gazster: let me presume you to be the beginner you claim to be. That said, there’s probably as many ways of classifying music as there is music itself.

One such metric deals with the degree of separation or silence between the notes.

Where one note merges into the next with [near] no sound reduction we refer to the music as legato. Conversely, notes with pauses between them, however brief, is referred to as staccato.

And while these 2 words are pretty much antonyms for one another, do note that staccato play runs a very wide spectrum of different kinds of music, where the speed of the notes, and the pause between them can make them more or less like legato play.

To play things staccato on the clarinet one must prevent sound, however so briefly, from emanating from the clarinet. There are several ways to do this, including simply stopping one’s breath into the instrument, and/or preventing the reed from vibrating.

In most circumstances, while in the middle of playing clarinet music, it is the prevention of the reed from vibrating that turns out the most effective way of preventing the production of sound. This has shown to be the fastest and smoothest way clarinet players place space between notes.

When first learning clarinet, this prevention of the reed from vibrating comes by placing the tip of the tongue on the tip of the reed, and then removing the tip of the tongue from the reed to resume play. With many years of advanced training , other methods of achieving staccato play, from techniques like double tonguing to control of the air escaping the mouth, vis a vis the diaphragm, are also sometimes incorporated.

Clarinet, unlike say Trumpet, is an instrument where far fewer of its players use techniques like double tonguing. Reasons why are too advanced for discussion here.

I hope this helps as a primer. [happy]

I'll leave it to other contributors to highlight other ways, likely comical, for preventing sound from leaving the instrument. Gunshots, the burning of one's clarinet, approaching the player with a large knife, etc., are technically also other ways (if not insane ones) of getting the instrumentalist to stop playing. [wink]



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 Re: tounge technique
Author: gazster 
Date:   2014-01-26 21:26

oh right thanks, I play guitar and piano so I feel I could pick clarinet up easily due to some musical experience yeah. would u buy a clarinet at 130 new that's aimed at beginners by the odseey make? or would u spend a little more for your 1st clarinet.

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: ned 
Date:   2014-01-27 04:29

''oh right thanks, I play guitar and piano so I feel I could pick clarinet up easily due to some musical experience yeah.''
**************************************************************
I admire your confidence gazster, but unless you are some sort of musical prodigy, I think you will find your confidence dashed on the sharp rocks of reality.

Here's my experience: After forty years or so of clarinet and sax playing, I decided to take up the lap steel guitar about five years ago, because I have always had a hidden desire to play music a little different to New Orleans jazz.

Well...I said to myself...I've got forty years of musical experience and I also know piano chords and have mucked about, now and then, with the standard 6 string guitar so this should be a breeze.

I gave myself six months to get up to speed...errr...I'm still running would you believe? I could possibly play a handful of numbers in a band in front of an audience, but I wouldn't want to place a bet on it.



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 Re: tounge technique
Author: muppie 
Date:   2014-01-27 00:08

I'd like to hear what other people would recommend for your 1st clarinet to get.... but I'd also like to share my own experience. I'm also a beginner clarinet player, having received my first clarinet at the end of December 2013. I decided to buy a Buffet E12F. That was the start of my discovery of Clarinet.... before that, I didn't know that the reeds + mouthpiece combination is probably one of the most important part of the clarinet. You would think - just get a clarinet,... how hard can it be, right? Just like a piano, you buy one and start pressing keys.. it'll make sound right? well.. that's not my experience with Clarinet.

If you used a bad reed (and most of them are not good out of the box) you'd really struggle to make a decent sound. If you used the wrong strength reed, you'll sound mostly breathy. You'll then learn about reed finishing.... but save that for later :)

You'll then ditch the "stock" mouthpiece and start looking at "better" mouthpieces to use....

Oh... I forgot to mention ligatures... the stock ligature is also not great. I was surprised to find how BIG of a difference a good ligature can make.

Anyway.... as I said, I bought a Buffet E12F (costs $1450) at the end of December... and now, less than a month later, I'm waiting for the delivery of another clarinet. My next clarinet is Ridenour Lyrique Libertas. Based on my "google" research, it seems like the best option for me without spending $3000 - $8000. Anyway, you'll do your own research and come to your own conclusion.... I don't want to bore you too much with every little detail/reason. I am still at the very early start of my Clarinet journey.

And.. I haven't even mentioned about using different barrells and bells.... but I hope my Ridenour Lyrique will come with excellent bell / barrell / mouthpiece (all there) without me having to buy any more extra stuff. Oh BTW if you are going to get a ridenour clarinet, you'll need to buy a ligature separately because it doesn't come with one. This makes perfect sense though.

I am very much in love with the Clarinet though. I really like the sound of it, but hate how hard it is for me to produce it nicely.

Good luck!

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: Garth Libre 
Date:   2014-01-27 05:25

Wow, that's a lot of good information that you've gathered in such a short time. I guess this is the result of a computer age, where an entire community of knowledge is available as fast as you can understand it.

My thoughts on changing clarinets so soon, is that equipment is important, but the biggest improvement you can make comes from a increase in skill. Skilled clarinetists can pick up any properly adjusted clarinet and make beautiful sounds. Mouthpieces and reeds are probably another story. Those are much more sensitive to changes in design. The Buffet is a fine instrument, and I've heard the Lyrique by Ridenour. Give an accomplished musician either one and I'm sure the sound will be magnificent.

Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: ThatPerfectReed 
Date:   2014-01-27 00:26

Your first clarinet (i.e. the one you first start out on, not the first one you own after having played for a while) should always be acquired by one manufacturer:

with do reference to this tongue in cheek, the manufacturer's name is:

"Rental."

Maybe you've heard of them before.

Seriously: rent an instrument for a while. See if this woodwind single reed based monster, which everyone who plays it has at times had a love/hate relationship with, is for you.

As far as the first clarinet you should own is concerned...there are just too many factors, I think, that have to be considered first by those making the recommendation before a couple of models can be recommended to you.

As if money to spend wasn't at the top of the list, how's about locale? Your post comes from Europe. What country? What key setup do most people play clarinet on where you live: Boehm or Oehler?

muppie

Tom Ridenour, I think, is one of the gems of the clarinet world. I think he offers great value for the buck in his clarinet line, and I hope you are very happy with your selection.

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: muppie 
Date:   2014-01-27 05:55

Garth, I believe that my E12F is not a bad instrument at all, and I can even venture to say "quite good". However, I really think my mouthpiece is not that great. So to get a good mouthpiece, I'll be spending $100 - $250. I thought, why not just get a Lyrique - which (I HOPE) comes with a great mouthpiece as part of the parcel rather than spending the money to get a mouthpiece now, and later on buying another clarinet anyway. Let's just hope I don't end up looking at buying a mouthpiece AFTER I got my Lyrique!

Before getting the E12F I was toying with the idea of getting an R13 straight up. Based on my life experience, I know that not buying the best will end up costing me more in the long run because ultimately I'll end up buying the best anyway. However I'm glad I didn't get an R13 because by the sound of it, the Ridenour Lyrique is better (it being a hard rubber that doesn't get bothered by moisture is my main reason). At the time I was looking around for my first clarinet, I didn't even know about this.

It's not always the case with buying the best of course. I bought a "cheap" Keyboard a long time ago and I'm still very happy with it now, because I don't play it seriously, and I'm never in love with keyboards anyway.

To the OP, I'm sorry if I strayed from your original question about tonguing. I think the first two responses above had pretty much summed it up. You should search around in Youtube, there are plenty of cool videos that demonstrate tonguing and how to do it and all.

Here are some good instructions / demo of tonguing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAduzXL0ywc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkfD_AMkxBg



Post Edited (2014-01-27 13:02)

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: gazster 
Date:   2014-01-27 16:59

oddly enough some buds have said try flute 1st, they say it's easier to set up and play. but I don't really like the flute sound to be honest, I like the clarinet tone and that it has a large range to play. should be fun to try clarinet and get better at it over time.

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: Lelia Loban 2017
Date:   2014-01-27 12:42

The suggestion to rent a clarinet for awhile makes sense, but before you decide, add up what a rental costs and then compare it to what you might be able to scrounge at your local flea market, thrift shop or junktiques store. You can get one of the better plastic clarinets sold to beginners (I recommend a Yamaha or a Bundy, now re-named American Selmer) for under $100 and even for less than $50. Beginners quit all the time and their parents soon discover that music stores, buried in used beginner instruments, refuse to buy them. So out they go into the get-rid-of-it market. (I'm not guessing about those prices because I'm a wacko flea market cockroach and I've bought such clarinets in the Washington, D.C. area recently for beginners among extended family and friends.)

If you decide to buy used, see if you can get someone who plays clarinet to go with you when you shop, so that you can avoid getting stuck with an instrument that has some fatal flaw. And, fair warning, fatal flaws do exist. Someone who doesn't play clarinet at all yet might not spot the missing keys or the sawed-off tenon.

Often an older, used clarinet in basically decent condition will need new corks and pads, and maybe some other work (a spring replaced here, a key bumper there, some adjustments of the screws, etc.). Even so, the cost of this instrument plus the overhaul may work out to less than renting for a year or so while you make your decision -- and then you'll own a good plastic clarinet that you can use for playing outdoors if you go on playing and decide to buy a more expensive wooden model later.

If you're no longer in school and can't just join the school band, I also recommend investing in a private teacher or taking a class at the local music store. Even though lots of people here can give good advice, only someone who's right there in the room with you, watching and listening to you, can really get you going through the earliest stages of learning a new instrument. Playing your other instruments will be a huge help to you, but plenty about the clarinet will be new, too.

Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2014-01-27 23:44

I do not recommend renting. in a few SHORT months, you will end up paying what you would have paid for a student clarinet purchase, and you will NOT be able to make any of it back if you decide to stop playing. If you purchase, you will easily be able to make back SOME money if you decide to stop when you sell it.

As for brands, student clarinets of the "big four" are generally safe. Yamaha, Buffet, Leblanc (student line is called "vito"), and Selmer.

Easiest to find Bundy clarinets (it's the student line of one of the big four...I think selmer if I remember right), and vitos/yamahas.

pretty much EVERY flea market and pawn shop clarinet will need an overhaul, so factor in about another 150 - 250 dollars for an overhaul on any purchase, but I think $300 will set you up well for the short term, with a sellback price (online) of a little north of $200 (especially if you had it recently overhauled)

Alexi

US Army Japan Band

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2014-01-28 00:12

For a relatively inexpensive clarinet, it would be nearly impossible to beat the new Backun composite material Alpha clarinet. If you search thoroughly on Internet, you can find these new, discounted for under $700. Though the Alpha just recently hit the market, I know several pros who are using it as a second or spare for outdoor performances and other settings where they don't want to risk damage to their costly main instruments. Some previsusly-used Buffet R13s and Selmer pro models don't play much better and almost always cost much more, especially if they need overhauling. If you should decide later to quit playing the clarinet, I should imagine the Alpha will have pretty decent resale value.

Alphas have a round, fairly covered sound that should encourage gentle articulation and smooth tonguing styles. They are made of a light composite material that makes them easy to hold and encourages relaxation. Like most other clarinets, they can be upgraded by fitting them with pro-level aftermarket barrels, bells, and mouthpieces.

Disclaimer: I do not work for Backun, sell, or otherwise distribute or trade in their instruments.


t



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 Re: tounge technique
Author: Garth Libre 
Date:   2014-01-28 01:01

No matter how much I think my tonguing technique is coming along nicely, every once in a while it degrades into a utter mess. I'm working on Hite's Progressive and Melodious Study number five right now. It has a fast tongued run up the scale from a low D to altissimo D and back down with two sharps (C# and F#). I can get it nicely several times in a row, but still somehow my tongue goes out of sync with my fingers and I start getting doubles on a single note before I miss the next ascending note. When I analyze the problem it seems to be that my fingerings are good and my tongue is good, but the two things are not matched to each other. It seems like getting the tongue to harmonize precislely with the fingers is the single most difficult thing about tonguing. You can practice rapid tonguing all you want on a single note but if you're not in sync with the music, it's remarkable how bad you can instantly sound. It sort of sounds like musical jibberish.

Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: ThatPerfectReed 
Date:   2014-01-27 20:45

Garth:

Play it legato, with a metronome, and with utter finger precision, until the point where every note is spot on with the metronome, and your fingers are alert, but not tense.

Then, introduce the tonguing, slowly at first, only speeding up the metronome no faster than you can consistently tongue. Again, accuracy to the metronome is critical. If you are not relaxed, slow down the metronome until you are.

Make sure, as you do this, that neither your mouth nor fingers in any way clench up. Ironically, it is the times where passages are most difficult that we tend to tense up our mouths and fingers, when paradoxically enough, these are the times they need to be most relaxed (i.e. for the technical stuff).

Remember, from good accurate legato comes good stacato.

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: pewd 
Date:   2014-01-28 02:53

Invest in some private lessons, learn to tongue correctly.

And an E12F is an excellent choice for a beginner. Add a Fobes Debut or 5RV-Lyre mouthpiece, Vand. #3 reeds, and a Rovner Dark.

But get a good private teacher to get you started right.

- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: gazster 
Date:   2014-01-27 22:38

hey I just want go play it for fun u know, just play some odd tv themes or music from games, I'm not looking to play in orchestra. so I don't really wanna spend too much, u know what I mean. it's like with guitar I'll play some scales then play a few solos, just for the enjoyment yeah. with this odyssey clarinet it says u don't have to worry about weather issues, it's done this way to help u play without the cracking issues from alot of wooden models.

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 Re: tounge technique
Author: Garth Libre 
Date:   2014-01-28 05:48

I think a lot of people start off playing clarinet just for fun, and then end up getting more and more serious until it becomes a bit of an obsession. It was this way for me when I started taking regular ballet classes. Within a year, it was all I could think of. When I graduated high school, soon I was getting a scholarship with a weekly paid stipend to take classes all day.

In the same way, I find myself thinking about clarinet while I'm at work doing other things. Some people are on Facebook two hours a day, so 45 minutes to an hour practicing clarinet still seems like a minor commitment by comparison.

Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com

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