 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-01-02 04:21
What's the best buy in a non-wooden clarinet; in tune, easy-blowing, reasonably well made, reasonable price?
Over the years I'v e seen guys playing some really good-looking "plastic" clarinets that sounded good (for jazz and pop).
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-01-02 09:34
Any of the plastic Yamahas, Bundy, Vito, Buffet B12, Selmer C100,200,300, any of these will do a good job with a decent mouthpiece.
Tony F.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-01-02 23:16
Yamaha or used Vito/Normandy or Forte.
if specifically for jazz check Pruefer Silver Throat. It takes abuse and is reputed to have superb projection, nice tone and therefore of interest to jazz players. In terms of intonation they are not up to the standards esp with modern french style MPCs, but could be made play reasonably in tune with a few adjustments.
There are usually a few on flee-bay for 20-40$ but they could be under different names, it had been stencilled under many.. You can spot them by nickel silver lining in top joint.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-02 23:36
This would be a great use for the Ridenour hard rubber clarinets. I also have seen a Ricardo Morales endorsement for the "C" clarinet which is acoustically built to take a regular "Bb" mouthpiece.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-01-02 20:35
I have a Hanson "reinforced grenadilla" instrument in silverplate, and it's a very nice and well-in-tune instrument. (I favour silver plated keys, and they don't mix well with hard rubber bodies)
--
Ben
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-01-02 23:41
I reckon it's an equivalent to Buffet's Greenline. Wood dust plus epoxy or some other sort of glue.
--
Ben
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-01-03 04:57
If you want truly "non-wood" instrument at a very affordable price, you might give Backun's new composite Alpha model clarinet a try. There's a brief clip on Youtube of Morales trying these, with and without aftermarket wooden barrels and bells.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2014-01-03 06:35
I played a plastic Vito professionally for years. People couldn't believe it was a student instrument. I sold it for $100, which is about what it was worth.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2014-01-06 00:31
I Sell them, I play them, the Alpha by Backun is hands down the best synthetic clarinet there is. This is my main wedding and Bar Mitsvah clarinet of choice. If I were playing a show this is the clarinet that would be in the pit with me.
Here I am playing it (the Alpha) on a Choro. This was recorded through a Zoom 4 with an AMT WS clarinet mic. This is a fun clarinet to play, it has a beatiful sound and MOST importanly it has an impecable scale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X21TKY50EYU
We have a few in stock at www.Clarinetgourmet.com
Tom Puwalski, is a Backun Performing artistformer Principal Clarinetist U.S Army Field Band, Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer" and the new "Klezmer Basic Training" and owner of Clarinetgourmet.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-01-06 13:52
Tom, that was a lovely piece of playing. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it. Many thanks.
Tony F.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2014-01-06 19:58
DISCLAIMER: I am a satisfied Clarinet Gourmet/Backun customer! 
You should contact Tom Puwalski through his website and arrange to try one of these fine instruments! I am loving my cocobolo Protege I recently purchased from him.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2014-01-06 19:59)
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2014-01-07 01:13
That sounds fab Tom! :-) I recently bought a Backun Cocobolo barrel for my Buffet RC Prestige Eb. It sounds wonderful and very mellow. I like it so much that I have just ordered the cocobolo bell with voicing groove :-)
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Author: Darrwall
Date: 2014-01-07 14:04
Tom
Fantastic playing with a beautiful, mellow, liquid sound. I would be grateful to know what barrel you were using and how it differed from the standard Alpha barrel.
Thank you
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Author: Chrisspr
Date: 2014-01-07 19:24
Hi Don't know whether I can be of any help but I have a beautiful resonate clarinet that I believe to be a Noblet of LeBlanc Normandy type manufacture that has been rebadged as the Portugese Musical school 'Intermusica'.
I know it may sound like some greedy sales person overestimating his ware but believe me that is not so.
I think it is absolutely superb. The keywork is definitively early Noblet but not of the conjoined A-A# posts type and it sings rather than blows. There is a Noblet mouthpiece with mine too although my personal mp., is a 5RV Liar. So:
What ever you do I strongly recommend that you look seriously at the Intermusica - Noblet - Stencil - LeBlanc - Normandy whatever. One thing is I am sure, you will not regret it and for very small beer.
H Chris Spreckley
You never know there just might be a 1939 Selmer BA., Tennor, or a very posh Buffet Clarinette at the local car boot sale for the price of a beer. O'no, now stop dreaming or you might start getting really fussy.
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Author: Chrisspr
Date: 2014-01-07 14:30
Cocobolo is the very best wood of the very best Buffets'.
Shouldn't it sound good?, - you bet.
You never know there just might be a 1939 Selmer BA., Tennor, or a very posh Buffet Clarinette at the local car boot sale for the price of a beer. O'no, now stop dreaming or you might start getting really fussy.
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Author: cxl
Date: 2014-06-01 15:56
Could you tell me the difference between ridenour 576bc with backun alpha?
Is it ridenour 576bc is a pro model,and backun alpha is just only a hiend student model ?The gap is so big?
les.cxl@gmail.com
Post Edited (2014-06-01 16:03)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2014-06-01 16:38
I'm packing my car to go to my standing Sunday brunch gig, I'm getting paid, and out the 7 clarinets that I have one of which is a Backun cocobollo clarinet, I'm taking my Alpha. Does that make it a professional clarinet?
That clarinet sounds really good, plays in tune and is made of synthetic material. It will be sitting on a stand one foot away from an AC vent and will be ice cold every time I pick it up and play it, and I know that every time I pick it up it will not have cracked.
If it were me, I'd get both and play them and figure out which one you like playing better.
My Disclaimer:
I Sell them, I play them, the Alpha by Backun is hands down the best synthetic clarinet there is. This is my main wedding and Bar Mitsvah clarinet of choice. If I were playing a show this is the clarinet that would be in the pit with me.
Here I am playing it (the Alpha) on a Choro. This was recorded through a Zoom 4 with an AMT WS clarinet mic. This is a fun clarinet to play, it has a beatiful sound and MOST importanly it has an impecable scale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X21TKY50EYU
Tom Puwalski, is a Backun Performing artistformer Principal Clarinetist U.S Army Field Band, Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer" and the new "Klezmer Basic Training" and owner of Clarinetgourmet.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-06-01 16:54
>> There's a brief clip on Youtube of Morales trying these, with and without aftermarket wooden barrels and bells. <<
But how much can you really trust a video that is shot in portrait orientation...?
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Author: cxl
Date: 2014-06-01 18:39
The key question is no chance to try ridenour 576bc, but having a chance to try backun alpha.
So, I'm sorry .
Thank you for your reply .
les.cxl@gmail.com
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-06-01 20:21
I think their seems to be some confusion about how Lyrique clarinets are purchased. Every clarinet is sent out on a five day (and if a customer needs a few extra days its never been a problem) trial period, the five days starting from the day the clarinet is received. Their is no restocking fee, the only payment that is non refundable is the cost of shipping which would be $40 round trip.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-06-01 21:12
The Alpha and the Lyriques are the best low-priced clarinets ever. They play and tune better than many more expensive wooden instruments. You owe it to yourself to try both and choose the one you prefer.
Or, you might buy both! That's what I wound up doing. The natural timber of the Ridenour and Backun instruments is different, and you can get additional variety by changing barrels. For example, the Alpha sounds round and covered with a cocobolo barrel and more pingy with an ebony one. The Ridenour Libertas is naturally more pingy. (Some other Ridenour models may not be--you have to try them).
To get any real additional choice in tonal variety and still enjoy the same even scale, you would, in my opinion, have to go up to the $4,000 plus price range of a Yamaha CSG or the $6,000 plus price range of a Selmer Privilege clarinet.
Post Edited (2014-06-01 21:43)
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-06-01 22:34
+1 for the Alpha it sounds great. Also check out some of the old Selmers. My friend has a old plastic Selmer and it sounds almost as good as some of the wooden ones.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-02 00:06
Tom, I really enjoyed listening to your playing!
When I looked at your Alpha clarinet, it appeared that the barrel and bell were wood. I'm guessing that they are both Moba?
If that is true, I began to wonder how much your clarinet might have cost. Since I could not find the Alpha listed on your website, I went to Kessler Music and found out the following: 1) Alpha plastic clarinet = $1075; 2) Moba barrel = $275; and 3) the Moba bell = $675 for a grand total of $2025. (All of these prices are clearly listed on Kessler's website.) I did notice that you sell the Moba barrel for $225 and the Moba barrel was the same at $675.
Anyway, I came upon a blog by a professional clarinetist named Josh Johnson. He went from a V40 with Moba barrel & bell to an Alpha with Moba barrel & bell and finally wound up with a Ridenour Libertas. Here's his review:
http://woodwindwonderland.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-new-ridenour-lyrique-libertas-life.html
To me, this is a higher quality option at a lower price tag of $1750.
IMHO, special synthetic material is still just another name for "plastic".
Disclaimer: I have absolutely no affiliation with Ridenour Clarinet Products.
Post Edited (2014-06-02 01:04)
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-06-02 00:59
I sure enjoyed Tom Puwalski's demonstration of the Backun Alpha. Well done, Tom--your Alpha sounds great!
For outdoors/beer tent gigs, I've been using a freshly-overhauled B&H 1-10 for the past few weeks and it's going to be a long-term relationship. Tonal depth, evenness of response, good ergonomics, workable intonation, and superb projection make the 1-10 a big winner for me. The fact that I can get another for $50 if something happens to it adds to the worry-free charm.
For mission-critical work in less-than-perfect environments, though, it's hard to top my Ridenour 576BC. Its many virtues are well documented here on the BBoard.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-06-02 01:05
The Libertas is a fine instrument that has a deeper tone and may carry better than the Alpha. But listen to Josh Johnson on Youtube play the Alpha without any aftermarket bells or barrels. Does it sound bad? To my ears it has a slightly more covered almost Viennese sound and it is cheaper.
See Testing Alpha Clarinet (YouTube).
I don't believe one can establish with brutal certitude that one clarinet is absolutely better than the other if they both tune and respond well. What are you going to use the instrument for? Will it be miked close up like Tom's video? Will it be unamplified in a concert hall situation?
What kind of sound do you like? What kind of music will you be playing on it?
Beyond a certain point, choice of a clarinet becomes subjective and personal. The choice between these two instruments cannot be made in the abstract.
A player must try them both and then choose.
Granted that longevity is also an issue that cannot yet be determined. How well does the keywork on each clarinet hold up? Not enough people have owned these models long enough yet for us to know.
Post Edited (2014-06-02 01:22)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-02 01:24
Ursa wrote: "I sure enjoyed Tom Puwalski's demonstration of the Backun Alpha. Well done, Tom--your Alpha sounds great!"
With all due respect, I believe Tom would sound great on any kind of clarinet. I've heard him play other clarinets from listening to his recordings, and, again, IMHO, he sounded absolutely great on all of them!
I believe it would be erroneous to believe that one would sound as good as Tom by playing the same instrument. The subjective sound quality of instruments, mouthpieces, reeds, ligatures, etc., have been thoroughly discussed before on this BB.
And, as for Morales play testing the Alpha clarinet on Youtube, Oh, how I wish he would have played some long, slow notes so that I could have clearly heard the quality of sound much better!
These are just my opinions and comments.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-02 01:42
seabreeze wrote: "The Libertas is a fine instrument that has a deeper tone and may carry better than the Alpha. But listen to Josh Johnson on Youtube play the Alpha without any aftermarket bells or barrels. Does it sound bad? To my ears it has a slightly more covered almost Viennese sound and it is cheaper."
With all due respect and IMHO, I did not like Josh's sound. To me, the upper clarion was so thin as to be unpleasant for me to listen to. The lower notes sounded a bit "reedy" and not melodious to my ears. Again, this is just my highly subjective opinion.
When I compare Tom's recording to Josh's, Tom wins hands down.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-06-02 02:48
Fair enough. But you would have to hear Josh play the Libertas and then play the Alpha with the Cocobolo bell and barrel. Then you would have to hear Tom play the Alpha without the aftermarket attachments. Then Tom would have to play the Libertas. Also Tom is probably playing on a $350.00 Mo-Ba mouthpiece, and Josh is definitely playing on a $35 beginner's mouthpiece.
So they would have to switch mouthpieces too.
Then, you and I--and anyone else-- would still have to try both instruments to really know much.
Also, in trying to get some perspective on the reedy sound in the lower register and the thinness in the upper (which I also heard, along with the nicer sound on the other notes), it might be useful to listen to Josh test other clarinets as well. On his Youtube channel, he tests three different Selmer clarinets (Signature, Recital, Privilege) in one episode, a Wurlitzer Boehm in another, and a Buffet Divine in a third episode. He also tests a Leblanc Esprit in another episode.
Post Edited (2014-06-02 04:58)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-02 03:41
seabreeze: I agree. All of these tests would certainly reveal a lot. Also, the microphone used could have a huge impact on sound. And, yes, I did think about the mouthpiece. That one item alone could make for a huge difference in sound.
Speaking about the "unaltered" Alpha right now, here's a line from Kessler's webad: "You can further improve the performance of the Alpha with a special barrel, bell and bore design by Morrie Backun."
Now, what does that tell you? It tells me that the quote: "special synthetic material chosen for its excellent sonic capabilities and exceptional tone" barrel and bell of the "unaltered" Alpha simply cannot produce the tonal qualities of an added Moba barrel and bell. IMHO, this is why Tom Puwalski had a wooden barrel and bell on his recording. (I still believe both are Moba.)
However, wood is still wood and, if I understand things correctly, it will change dimensional size with changes in temperature and humidity. This will affect intonation and possibly even crack! Why bother to worry about these issues when a hard rubber Ridenour 576bc for $100 less than the "unaltered" Alpha will, IMHO, give you worry free intonation playing along with a better tone?
IMO, there simply is no comparison between the Ridenour 576bc and the completely synthetic Alpha.
Same disclaimer as above.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-06-02 04:07
Don,
I agree that Backun doesn't seem to have the faith in non-wood materials that Ridenour rightly has. Acoustically, Ridenour's rubber makes the grade. It doesn't need wooden bells and barrels to enhance the sound; it stands on its own.
But the Alpha also needs a chance to stand on its own; players ought not to assume it will sound incomplete or deficient unless "normalized" by wooden attachments.
Of course instrument dealers want to sell all the accessories and attachments they can for additional profit. I'd like to see the "unadorned" Alpha given a fair trial along with the undeniably excellent Libertas.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2014-06-02 06:07
Firstly, I'm playing the stock Alpha bell on that video and I'm playing a Moba barrel, the reason for that is this: I use the same barrel on all my clarinets, it's way easier on mouthpiece cork, and I find that keeping the similarity of performance characteristics from one clarinet to another.
Secondly, I've played lots of barrels over the years and have worked lots of clarinet conventions, I don't believe barrels change the sound of the clarinet. They change the playability of the instrument, if that changes the way you play it, then it changes the sound. That's my only my opinion maybe yours if different.
Thirdly, you can get an Alpha (silver keys) for $925 from Clarinet Gourmet
Fourthly, Morrie has faith in the material he is using, or he wouldn't have spent the money to develop the molds (and they were expensive) or take on a project of that magnitude.
The Alpha doesn't sound good because I have a different barrel on it, or because I mic it well, I do. Or what ever ligature is I'm using. It sounds great because it's a well designed instrument that has a very high quality build. It's a damn fine instrument that is at a very inexpensive price.
Tom Puwalski, is a Backun Performing artistformer Principal Clarinetist U.S Army Field Band, Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer" and the new "Klezmer Basic Training" and owner of Clarinetgourmet.com
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-02 06:39
Hi Tom, when I read "I don't believe barrels change the sound of the clarinet", I felt like falling off my chair. Why? Because that goes against everything that I have ever read about barrel material. Are you really saying that a plastic barrel sounds the same as a Moba or hard rubber (created with identical specifications)? I may be wrong, however, I think a lot of players are going to disagree with you.
I'm planning to check in with some custom barrel makers to verify your matter of fact assertion.
As to using the Moba barrel on the Alpha simply because it's easier on your mouthpiece cork, there may be a grain of truth in that statement, however, it makes me wonder why you chose a Moba barrel in the first place to play on all of your clarinets. Again, I may be wrong but my gut says "sound" had something to do with it.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-02 07:31
Tom,
with all due respect and having no desire to embarrass you, Morrie Backun has a new Youtube video entitled "Experimenting with Wood" in which he says in front of a multitude of barrels made from different woods in the video: "We work with artists to help them create the sound they are looking for".
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dMaXRb0VJlk
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2014-06-02 07:32
I use a MoBa barrel because I picked that for my MoBa Clarinet, I liked the sound and the playability. I said that I believe that barrels really don't change the sound of a clarinet, they change the playing characteristics of the clarinet. I think for a tone change a bell is what you're looking for. When I picked my Moba Barrel, I picked it for how it made the mouthpiece "mate" with the clarinet. I pick a barrel for "feel" and Intonation. If it feels good, and tunes good it usually sounds good, and most importantly I'll play it well. I'm sure some players will disagree with me, but my thoughts on bells and Barrels over the years has come to this: I think the player can hear a difference in feel and sound of a barrel, but I think everyone else can hear when you change your bell. I'm sure a bunch of players will disagree with that also.
But when it comes down to it, I use the stock barrel for my MoBa clarinet on all my Backun clarinets.
Have a little fun with this here is the Alpha with original barrel with 3 different bell one the original one, one a cocobollo Protege one a Grenadilla Protege bell.
https://soundcloud.com/klezmertom/alpha-bell-blow-out
Tom Puwalski, is a Backun Performing artist,former Principal Clarinetist U.S Army Field Band, Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer" and the new "Klezmer Basic Training" and owner of Clarinetgourmet.com
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2014-06-02 08:34
I'm not embarrassed and I'm not feeling "dissed", I think different woods sound differently. I personally really love the sound of Cocobollo, my Moba is cocobollo as is my Protege. When I feel like the sound of grenadilla I play my Antigua by Backun or my Alpha (which sounds like sort of Hyper grenadilia to my ears). But I think buying a Barrel for a major Tone change is like buying a bell for a major change in tuning.
Each part does different things, In barrels I think the dimensions and diameters play a larger roll than does the material, in bells the materiel make a very big difference. I have one of the rare Backun "Zebra wood" Bell, that sounds fabulous when I use a clip on mic, and it's very light weight which counteracts the extra weight of the mic. I never use in when not using the mic, because it doesn't give me the sonic "weight" I like when I record in the studio or perform live with no mic.
I spend a lot of time recording my playing, there are times when I think something that feels radically different doesn't sound that different when I listen to playback. The converse is also true there are times where things play about the same and sound differently, either for the better or worse. I try to be objective when I listen back. In the end I play exactly the clarinet I feel like playing any time I feel like playing it for what ever kind of music I'm playing.
Tom Puwalski, is a Backun Performing artist,former Principal Clarinetist U.S Army Field Band, Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer" and the new "Klezmer Basic Training" and owner of Clarinetgourmet.com
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-02 09:13
In Morrie Backun's video, he talked about working with artists to help them create the sound they were looking for by changing the type of wood the barrels were made of.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dMaXRb0VJlk
There was not a bell in sight and bells were never mentioned.
Now, I understand that Mr. Backun is a respected clarinet designer. Why would he talk about barrels instead of bells in changing tonal sound characteristics?
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-06-02 10:23
I was unimpressed with the Alpha that I tried at NAMM. To be fair, I only tried one alpha. I have also only ever tried one Ridenour Lyrique clarinet, and I was so happy, I bought it.
AAAClarinet
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-06-02 15:20
@Dan re: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dMaXRb0VJlk
I am going to my backyard and cutting out 2x4 as we speak
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2014-06-02 16:42
To the original poster: Sounds like you want an inexpensive, reliable, stable clarinet to take wherever you go.
Consider a used Conn (I think the model was 612) or similar, or one of Mr. Ridenours offerings, or perhaps the Noblet series.
It sounds like Backun has a nice synthetic offering as well.
Some older wooden ones have stood the test of time and likely will not crack...a used Evette, etc.
I DO believe that you CAN play with sound color....best by applying changing in wind and reed and lip and throat (but you KNEW that) and also by barrel configuration (internal and material...Aristotelian, as TR would have it, or otherwise).
Disclaimer: I make and sell custom barrels and designed a hard rubber one, but otherwise I do NOT have a hound in this fox chase or drag hunt
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-06-02 17:48
Dr. Segal,
"Aristotelian, as TR would have it......"
:)
So your the guy who read that article! Lol. Hope you enjoyed it.
In all seriousness it's actually surprising how many people have found that article informative. That said, think you might be the first person to reference it publicly.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2014-06-02 18:08
Well, Tom, next you can reach the Ideal of Clarinetedness via a Dialectic. Perhaps your next model should be called the Hegel.
I Kant wait to see it.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-06-02 19:13
To sum up my impressions of the two clarinets most in question here:
If you're going to sit in an orchestra and sound like an orchestral clarinetist is usually expected to sound, without amplification, the Ridenour Libertas is your best bet. If you're going to play more popular music, latin, bossa nova, jazz, various folk musics of the world, new age, etc. especially with amplification, it's a toss up, and you might even prefer the Alpha.
Most players would describe the Lyrique as the darker and more concentrated tonally of the two. The Alpha is perhaps "brighter" but players will compensate to get a rounder, more recorder-like tone out of it. Was it David Hume who said, "There's no accounting for taste?"
If you want to speculate, which different clarinets would the philosophers play? Plato, Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, Kant, Berkeley, Hume, etc?
Post Edited (2014-06-02 19:19)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2014-06-02 20:13
Seabreeze: Philosophers do not PLAY, They CONJECTURE. The more cocky ones POSIT.
(In this regard, they are as useful as theologians and politicians without the negative side effects).
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2014-06-02 20:16)
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-06-02 20:19
The point of the article what "Aristotle knew about the clarinet" was the application of the four causes in regards to evaluating clarinets (it could be applied to any product). It was about priorities.
I think we will have to respectfully agree to disagree on the usefulness of philosophy.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
Post Edited (2014-06-02 20:26)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-02 21:22
seabreeze, if you've ever heard or played the Ridenour 576bc or have heard others play one, I would love to read your comparison of the Alpha vs the 576bc.
Since they are so close in price, would you say that the 576bc is an Alpha with all of the "compensations used to get a rounder, more recorder-like tone out of it? And if so, would all of these "compensations" add more resistance to the entire setup? IMHO, if these "compensations" did add more resistance to produce a rounder tone, the 576bc would probably be the winner as to ease of playability coupled with its already rounded, mellow tone.
Just curious.
Post Edited (2014-06-02 23:54)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2014-06-03 00:00
Seabreeze, I would love to know what understanding of the "four" causes, leads you to that evaluation of these clarinets? Because I really don't think you've articulated what your experience is with either clarinet to be able to make your pronouncement.
"If you're going to sit in an orchestra and sound like an orchestral clarinetist is usually expected to sound, without amplification, the Ridenour Libertas is your best bet. If you're going to play more popular music, latin, bossa nova, jazz, various folk musics of the world, new age, etc. especially with amplification, it's a toss up, and you might even prefer the Alpha."
"Most players would describe the Lyrique as the darker and more concentrated tonally of the two. The Alpha is perhaps "brighter" but players will compensate to get a rounder, more recorder-like tone out of it"
Most players aren't going to describe the sound of the Lyrique as Darker than the Alpha because most people haven't played either of them, let alone both next to each other. I also find the remark about "orchestral playing and sounding like an Orchestra player" very pretentious. It makes me want to ask you what orchestra you play with and what instruments are you playing when you are playing there?
I put up some audio of me playing an Alpha, and all that will tell you is what I sound like playing an Alpha, that's not what an Alpha sounds like, I'm sure Ricardo sounds different on it, as does Eddie Daniels or any one else who will play it. When I'm playing a particular type of music I'm trying to get a particular sound out of an instrument if that instrument gets me there, what ever the music requires, it's a good instrument. I get a pretty round sound out of an Alpha when the music requires it and trust me I'm NOT compensating.
"I was unimpressed with the Alpha that I tried at NAMM. To be fair, I only tried one alpha. I have also only ever tried one Ridenour Lyrique clarinet, and I was so happy, I bought it."
Really? Did you try the Lyrigue at the Namm show too? I don't think so maybe if you did you would have been equally "unimpressed". That's the nature of the Namm show, can you even hear yourself at all with those rutting saxophones and screaming trumpets around? I mention that because it doesn't seem to me to be a very "scientific" test.
Guys put some audio up, convince me, at least make a valid argument. If you have another "non wood" clarinet that you think sounds more "orchestral" "rounder""darker" or has more "moJo" put up an audio sample.
"There are times where talking about music or clarinets is like dancing about architecture"
Tom Puwalski
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-06-03 00:31
Whether it was, the time of day or whatever, it was fairly quiet at namm when I was trying the Bacun clarinets. It wasn't just the sound that didn't do it for me. The feel of the clarinet was awkward,for me. When I play my Ridenour in orchestra with trumpets and horns playing right behind me, I am still impressed with it. And so are those around me.
AAAClarinet
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-03 00:48
Tom P:
1) With all due respect and I certainly don't want to start an argument with you because your knowledge and experience would absolutely blow me out of the water, however, I believe that when you played your Alpha without the stock barrel, to me, that was compensating. As another has said, we would all love to hear what the stock Alpha clarinet sounds like when you play it.
2) I found someone who agrees with you that the bell has more influence over the barrel when it comes to sound texture changes.
http://www.lesliecraven.co.uk/reviews/review_backun.html
(Look for the 10th paragraph down from the top.)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2014-06-03 01:06
Clout in the clarinet world isn't the issue, Sherman has earned a right to his opinion, he bought some clarinets and he plays them he's obviously happy with them and he says so. When I played my Alpha the first time, I was amazed at how much they played and and sounded like my Protege and Moba clarinet. The key mechanism and the way it "Blew" was very similar too. I'm looking for the video where Corrado was playing an Alpha in the orchestra he plays with, because it (the clarinet) and he sounded great on it. And he wasn't playing some weird world music or polkas on it.
I think I've answered the original question:
"What's the best buy in a non-wooden clarinet; in tune, easy-blowing, reasonably well made, reasonable price?"
I gave my opinion that the Alpha is worth a try, and demonstrated that one can sound damn good on a clarinet that costs less than $1k. All I can say to the original poster is try both, and decide for your self what the "best buy" is. You should never buy a clarinet on any body's recommendation alone you should always try them, then believe your own ears.
Tom Puwalski, is a Backun Performing artist,former Principal Clarinetist U.S Army Field Band, Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer" and the new "Klezmer Basic Training" and owner of Clarinetgourmet.com
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-03 01:48
Here's Eddie Daniels playing what looks like a stock Alpha. Most of the time his back is to the camera, however, there are at least 2 short segments where he turns around and exposes the entire clarinet for a few moments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa32_Hg7bd4
Here's Corrado Giuffredi playing an Alpha with what appears to be a nonstock barrel and then he proceeds to add a Backun bell and then a Backun cocobolo barrel. IMHO, what a difference the cocobolo barrel made!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuhdrQDrHgo
(I made a 2 spelling errors.)
Post Edited (2014-06-03 03:05)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-06-03 02:45
I can't be the only person to like both the Libertas and the Alpha. Is that like rooting for Stanford and Berkeley at the same time?
I bought a Libertas in March and have since logged in over 100 hours of practice time. Retired, I play for personal enjoyment and pleasure.
I tried an Alpha that a friend in Texas was playing and liked it after testing it for about 30 minutes and listening to him play on it.
I have just purchased a used Alpha and will pick it up this Friday. I plan to log in many hours on it as well.
Since I have been attending symphony concerts since at least 1960, it is not improper or pretentious for me to describe how a clarinet sounds unamplified in a orchestra.
Post Edited (2014-06-07 20:05)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2014-06-03 10:08
I just thought I'd post this to the discussion here is Corrado Giuffredi playing the Alpha in his orchestra on two pretty exposed solos. Ok he is using a Fat boy Barrel (which isn't the factory Barrel). I think he does a pretty nice job sounding how an orchestral player is supposed to sound. Having listened to a bunch of his videos and listening to this play on the synthetic clarinet all I can say is that it sounds like Corrado. I've heard him on his MoBa, I've heard him on a Protege, He sounds like him. Professional players don't screw around on a gig with seeing if something will work or not. It either plays or it doesn't and you find that out way before the show. If something works for you play it . Me well, I just wish I would have had an Alpha 15 years ago when I was still doing my Army gig. I would have had a cocobolo protege and an Alpha in a double case and those would have been my gig/tour horns.
If after watching these videos you still think the reason these synthetic Alphas sound great is because of the barrel, email me.
Richard Wagner: Siegfried Idyll.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4602877718806&set=vb.1498256444&type=3&theater
Beethoven 4
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4606396966785&set=vb.1498256444&type=3&theater
Tom Puwalski, is a Backun Performing artist,former Principal Clarinetist U.S Army Field Band, Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer" and the new "Klezmer Basic Training" and owner of Clarinetgourmet.com
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-04 08:30
As I was working on my lawn this evening, a question came into my mind. Why should a person "need" two Bb clarinets? Wouldn't it be great if just one clarinet could serve both purposes, on the road as well as in the orchestra, symphony or ensemble?
I sense you already know where this is leading. Hard rubber, IMHO, is practically impervious to temperature and humidity changes. The sound, response and other important characteristics are arguably similar to wood.
Anyway, it just seemed to make more sense to me to have just one Bb clarinet because 2 different clarinets would most likely have different playing characteristics which might mean having to learn to play 2 seemingly different instruments.
Anyway, it was just a thought.
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Author: cxl
Date: 2014-06-04 11:11
After reading your replies, i'm more confused, which one is better?ridenour 576bc and backun alpha.
It seems not a clear answer and only try on my own.
les.cxl@gmail.com
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-06-04 14:53
Dan Shusta wrote:
>As I was working on my lawn this evening, a question came into my mind.
> Why should a person "need" two Bb clarinets?
stop right there before you get too deep into heresy!
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-04 20:03
To cxl:
I think Tom Puwalski answered your question best when he wrote above: "I gave my opinion that the Alpha is worth a try, and demonstrated that one can sound damn good on a clarinet that costs less than $1k. All I can say to the original poster is try both, and decide for your self what the "best buy" is. You should never buy a clarinet on any body's recommendation alone you should always try them, then believe your own ears."
I think that is good advice and the "try before you buy" mantra has been mentioned many times on this BB.
To cyclopathic:
I'm not really sure what "heresy" thing you're referring to, but if it's the wood vs hard rubber controversy, all I can say is please read Sherman Friedman's review of the hard rubber Libertas. Mr. Friedman is infinitely more knowledgeable about clarinets than I am.
And, may I again refer you to what Tom Puwalski said about trying both and then let your ears decide.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-06-04 21:08
Dan Shusta wrote:
> To cyclopathic:
>
> I'm not really sure what "heresy" thing you're referring to,
> but if it's the wood vs hard rubber controversy, all I can say
> is please read Sherman Friedman's review of the hard rubber
> Libertas. Mr. Friedman is infinitely more knowledgeable about
> clarinets than I am.
>
single clarinet
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-06-04 21:35
I'm sorry, cyclopathic, but I'm confused. Would you care to elaborate?
Thanks.
Post Edited (2014-06-04 21:49)
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-06-04 23:09
it was an "emotional" reaction to "Why should a person "need" two Bb clarinets?"..
there could be a variety of reason why person needs an extra Bb, as backup, for travel, for jazz, etc
Post Edited (2014-06-04 23:12)
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