 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: RonD
Date: 2013-12-21 21:44
Hello,
What are your thoughts on shipping wood clarinet in winter.
It would be shipped by Purolator.
I live in Northern Ontario and although the temperature is suppose to be
mild (er); it would still be around minus 15 Celsius.
It is the Yamaha ycl-450, any thoughts on Yamaha's wood quality?
Thank You
RonD
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-21 22:04
The cold itself should not be much of an issue (it's not going to be exposed to the elements and it won't be in transit a very long time). Once it arrives were it is going, the person at that end would know not to start blowing through it until it had warmed up to room temperature.
I would take extreme cold over extreme heat any day. Having a woodwind sitting out on the hot tarmac would have me worried about all the lacquer and adhesives that might be compromised.
I would presume shipping now to be ok.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: RonD
Date: 2013-12-21 21:21
Thank You Paul,
When I apply bore oil, ( in blackwood bagpipes) we used sweet almond oil
as it was always thought to be the same or almost.
Do you apply it also to the outside of clarinets or just inside.
Ronald
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-22 02:40
The bore is normally oiled as that's the wettest part of the joints during playing, but there's no harm in applying a small amount of oil to the outside if it hasn't got a highly polished or lacquered finish. Yamaha clarinets usually have an oiled finish to the joints.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: discerningclarinetist
Date: 2013-12-21 22:49
As Paul said, clarinetist really don't have much to fear from being shipped in the cold. Cracks happen from rapid changes in temperature. Most professional adhesives are chosen to withstand both cold and warm temperatures. So the pads shouldn't be affected much either.
Usually, people oil the bore of their instruments only. And then when they bring it to the repair shop the technician gives it an oil bath getting all aspects of the wood. This, in my opinion, is traditional practice.
There are those who recommend not oiling clarinets ever. And those who recommend doing it very rarely. I think Guy Chadash explains this practice on his website. Maybe you'd like to check it out. A google search should find it.
Tyler Zey
www.discerningclarinetist.com
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Author: RonD
Date: 2013-12-22 06:17
Thanks Tyler,
WOW....
Well, coming from almost thirty years of Highland bagpipes, I certainly
have views about oiling blackwood, and the results of experiment , disasters included.
There are pipers they say an old set of drones that have not been played should be soaked in
linseed oil for a few days....
Big NO NO...
A friend of mine tried this. He was told after the disaster that he should not have done this.
the reasoning was there, it completely imbibed ( as deep as it could) the wood with oil.
when he introduced moisture all it did was push it further and he had a bottom bass drone split like
firewood.
He was told afterwards from other sources that what is usually done is introduce moisture a little everyday
I would be scared to soak a clarinet.
Most pipers just put a little bit of sweet almond oil 2 or 3 times a year in the bore. Some don't at all.
However, what is common to most is to swab the bores after playing.
Now, I did not know that this is how they cured blackwood ( chadash site).
Does Yamaha do the same thing with their wood stash?
Since I have never held a clarinet in my hands, and obviously could not check an interval of twelve to save my life,
perhaps I would be better off with the ABS 255, and learn on this.
they should be more consistent than wood. In fact I am almost fearful now.
What do you think.
Sincerely
Ronald
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-12-22 02:28
If I lived in a place where winter temperatures routinely went to such levels I'd be a bit leery of wood instruments unless I could absolutely guarantee the conditions it would be exposed to.
I have the opposite problems, with summer temps into the 40'sC, but I'm less worried about high temps than extreme cold. Many more of the references on this bb concerning instruments cracking seem to involve extreme cold rather than extreme heat. Hard rubber might well be the answer, as used by Ridenour and a few other makers. My experience of hard rubber has been very good, with such instruments not giving anything away to wood, imho. There is also the benefit of thermal stability.
Tony F.
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Author: RonD
Date: 2013-12-22 03:11
Thanks Tony,
I have to remember that I have
never played before..
That raises others questions about do I need wood.
Ronald
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-22 10:51
This has been a far ranging discussion, but I think I am hearing that you "Ron D" do not yet have a clarinet but wish to try one. You are mostly concerned about the issue of cracking given weather conditions in your area.
Buffet makes EXCELLENT clarinets out of a composite material of mostly epoxy mixed with African Blackwood powder. They call it Greenline material and it is completely resistant to any hygromatic changes or extremes of temperature (well there are some stories from Iraq but that's another thread).
The Greenline clarinets also do not get oiled. AND they don't really "settle" after production so the intonation is more consistent amongst these clarinets.
They start around $3000 for the R13 and the full line of the Buffet clarinets is available in Greenline. I'd go this route in a heart beat when there are concerns mainly around weather.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-12-23 03:23
For substantially less than a Buffet Greenline, you could purchase BOTH a Ridenour 576 bc hard rubber clarinet AND a Backun Alpha synthetic clarinet. Either would be a good choice, and you would not have to worry about cracking due to weather conditions.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2013-12-23 12:39
To be extra careful, let the package come up to room temperature before opening. It will be more gradual and there won't be any condensation.
Steve Ocone
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Author: RonD
Date: 2013-12-23 20:44
Thank You all
for your response.
They are all things for me to remember
when , if I should buy a wood clarinet.
As appealing as a wood clarinet is, I have decided to go and purchase
the Yamaha ycl-255.
Since I have never played one before and it seems that you do not need the
break in time.
I will start a topic about book suggestions.
Thank You,
Ronald
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-12-27 15:07
Steven Ocone has excellent insight.
It is not the temperature that cracks wood. It is the temperature gradient through the thickness of the wood.
If your cold instrument is placed in a warm environment, it will start warming from the outside. The expanding wood on the outside will try to pull the grain apart in the bore.
If you blow body-temperature air through a cold instrument, the bore will expand and try to pull the outside fibers apart.
Every stick of wood is different, and I can't find any really good data on African blackwood thermal expansion coefficients or strength, but using ebony data, it looks to me that a 50-deg F (about 27-degC) is pretty likely to crack a clarinet.
Bob Phillips
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