 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: afmdoclaw
Date: 2013-12-15 18:30
I have been listening to Larry Combs a lot lately (wish he had more recordings for my listening pleasure) and I am obsessed/fascinated with his tone (of course he has it all together IMHO). His tone on his cd "Larry Combs, Clarinet" is so great (and IMHO unique) that I am at a loss as to how he gets such a sound with the equipment he uses (as much as I try to copy his sound and equipment I "ain't" even close). His tone sounds like it travels openly in a direct line from his upper chest/thorax through his trachea and oral cavity through the instrument in one continuous column of sound supported at all times by a diaphragm of steel. He makes a wood instrument RING! It creates a visual in my mind of a large round metal pipe with a fuzzy external surface (high partials) and a very dense dark perfectly centered small tight core.
As you may guess I am a "tone guy." I don't care if a player has the greatest technique etc if his tone is poorly developed I "ain't" listening for long.
Now for my point/question- who else can I listen too that has a similar tone? What can one practice to achieve a similar tone quality?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rtmyth
Date: 2013-12-15 19:34
Yes you too might develop such a timbre if you listen; otherwise, maybe not. George Silfies, Ralph Maclain, Gigliotti, Lurie, etc, etc.
richard smith
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-15 23:38
To sound good, or different, you need to stretch yourself to make sounds you've never made before, even if they sound bad. Take more mouthpiece, loosen your embouchure, blow like the wind and find the point where you break into a horrendous squawk. Then take it back a fraction. Try to sound like everybody, even if you don't want to play that way. Acker Bilk can sound awful, but you need to have your own version of that in your repertoire. Pete Fountain's sound wouldn't work in a symphony, but that doesn't make it bad.
Read the article "Whip up a Tone Palette" by the great oboist Robert Bloom http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=94788&t=94788.
At least to some extent, Larry Combs sounds the way he does because his lips, mouth and throat happen to have his particular shape. But he worked his butt off to achieve what he did. Eventually, of course, you will sound like yourself. It's important to try everything, including sounding like someone else, but then you must put what you learn into your own playing.
When you get to heaven, St. Peter will NOT ask you "Why weren't you Larry Combs?" "Why weren't you Robert Marcellus?" He'll ask you "Why weren't you Frank Battaglia? Why didn't you make the best of your unique talent?"
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-16 02:27
You are really close when you say:
"His tone sounds like it travels openly in a direct line from his upper chest/thorax through his trachea and oral cavity through the instrument in one continuous column of sound supported at all times by a diaphragm of steel."
But let me correct a few things. Firstly it is not the tone that travels, it is the AIR. The air flows freely from his CORE by means of ABS of steel, not diaphragm. The diaphragm has only one purpose: when it contracts it increases the size of the thoracic cavity which in turn causes the lungs to fill with air. Any one can do that properly because you don't really have to work at it. The issue then comes down to the proper way to EXPEL the air to achieve what you are talking about. And this takes effort, the effort of engaging one's core at all times.
Also, I have the honor of sitting next to a long time Combs student who also gets this "to-good-to-be-true" sound, and another big part of the "Combs sound" is articulating properly. Combs was insistent (with his students) on tonging tip of the tongue to the tip of the reed. If you don't do this, learning to do this is a LONG (also lots of hard work), S-L-O-W, arduous process to get it right. The rewards are a beautifully set up stream of air that yields one heck of a sound.
....................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2013-12-16 09:22
To be frivolous, I would say people on the voluminous side tend to get a rounder sound than scrawny people. A Steinway D sounds better than a puny little Petroff. Mr. Combs' size is closer to that of a Steinway D.
On a more serious level apart from proper breathing and blowing, relaxation also plays a big part. The Ellington alto-saxophonist Johnny Hodges, whom I had the good fortune to know, was loose as a goose when he played, and had a glorious tone. This didn't stop him from playing shattering climaxes as well as the sweet tones. Outside of music, he was anything but relaxed!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-12-16 12:21
I don't think that is so frivolous - anatomy has a lot to do with how we sound. I think our oral and sinus cavities are analogous to the resonating box of a string instrument.
Jim Pyne once told me he liked me sound and then went on to remark how I had a large head, a characteristic that he noticed with other clarinettists whose sound he admired.
I also had my tonsils and adenoids removed when I was a kid, which also has an effect (*not* that I would recommend having this done for other than medical reasons).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-16 14:11
How often we read the comment that ....you'll sound like yourself regardless of the instrument set up.......If that is true then the player's body must have a lot to do with it. I'm inclined to believe that is the case. However, I think Larry has said it's his wife's cooking.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-12-16 14:44
I believe it is true that everyone has their own sound. Sure one can tweak their sound up to a point but in the end, you will sound like you. At some point, in order to play comfortable you will settle on the equipment that makes you sound like yourself. If that was not the case everyone that studies with a teacher because they want to sound like them would be able to sound that way, they don't. I know so many players that studied with teachers that made them use the same mouthpiece, clarinet, reed etc. and few if any ended up sounding like that teacher. In my opinion, some better, some worse. None have ever sounded exactly the same.
When I was a student I played a summer job with Larry and was so impressed with his tone at the time I bought the same mouthpiece he was using but was unable to play it after trying it for a few weeks, it just wasn't me. Many years ago I heard a player on the radio and his tone fasinated me and I couldn't get it out of my "inner" ear. I wanted so much to sound like that. After going through many mouthpieces and experiments with reeds I found the sound I wanted to hear myself after several months. I discover years later that I don't really sound like him on a recording I bought compared to my own recordings but I did end up sounding like I heard in my "inner" ear. It took some work and experimenting to find "my" tone. It's not really much different than I sounded before, just a little richer and fuller but I still sound like me.
I've known several fine players, and many students, that tried to "drastically" change their sounds and I've never known one to really succeed beyond "tweaking".
The reasons are basic, teeth formations, oral cavity, embouchure and muscle strength, tongue size and thickness, lung and throat differences and several more. That's the reason no two singers have ever sounded the same, We are born with our own tonal ability and it can only be improved and tweaked, not rally changed. Just My opinion.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2013-12-17 00:06)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-16 20:18
I'm inclined to agree, Ed. The analogy to the human voice is thought provoking.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-17 01:14
But lest we digress into a philosophical discussion, I read the question as inquiring into how one gets a sound with 'energy' in it.......specifics of sound aside.
I would say simply that if you are not experiencing the clarinet vibrating under your fingers as you play, you can vastly improve your sound by working to achieve that, and the accompanying sonority.
.................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2013-12-17 01:52
Why was Michael Jordan the best that ever played bball?
If you are asking about players like Larry Combs, you can analyze all you want and practice all you want.
But in the end they are special players that have God-given talents that surpass the norm. By a lot.
Plus they work incredibly hard and are focused without distraction.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2013-12-17 05:43
Paul: I love the idea of expeiencing the clarinet vibrating under one's fingers. I plan on keeping this concept uppermost in my mind and ingraining it in that of my students'.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-12-17 06:20
Ruben, it's not a concept. If you have an instrument yay seals and is completely air right and your blowing and support are such you'll feel the clarinet vibrate under the fingers. My Eatons did and now my Backun does.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2013-12-17 12:55
Peter: Let's say that "reality" is a better word than "concept".
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2013-12-17 14:25
Or maybe it's like Pete Fountain said when someone asked him how he got his great sound. He replied, "I have the best sound engineer in the business". I'm just say'n..............
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: afmdoclaw
Date: 2013-12-17 16:29
Wonderful insightful comments-- thank you
And yes I agree your physical make-up is a factor for woodwind players just as it is for vocalist. Being able to feel your horn vibrate is so important. Ed's comment "[a]t some point, in order to play comfortable you will settle on the equipment that makes you sound like yourself" is also a truism. Tongue position ("e") combined with an open throat("ah") is a major sound factor.
As for the "shoe" theory -- I for one would wear his old smelly throw-away shoes IF it help me create a tone like his-- LOL.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2013-12-17 21:14
Just one last thing: playing regularly in the Berlin Symphony Orchestra or the Chicago Symphony Orchestra will make you sound better than playing in the Potowatami Symphony Orchestra.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-12-18 00:00
Ruben, it will make you a better musician but it won't change your sound. And William, I never did like Pete Fountain's tone but I respeced his playing. Just a thought.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: afmdoclaw
Date: 2013-12-18 14:58
William's post about sound engineer is also interesting. For example, I recently purchased a CD recorded in a Salt Lake UT studio because it had one of my favorite players on it - the multi-woodwind artist Bob Sheppard (virtuoso flute, sax, and clarinet (MM clarinet performance from Eastman)). I have heard Shep live in many different forums and have every cd I can find with him as sideman and leader (sadly only 3 as leader). Great tenor tone but this new cd does not do him justice with respect to his tone- disappointing.
This is just one example of Williams insight about recordings. Also have noticed some players sound great live but for some reason their tone does not record well-- example the great Jerry Bergonzi.
Finally tone as heard sitting next to or in front of a player on stage and in the back of the concert hall are too very different sounds i.e, the buzz that projects the flutes and bass (too many times in the past I have heard bass players set their treble to low in order to hear the full dark sound through the amp behind them not realizing that their sound is just a mushy boom out in the hall).
Thus I must confess I have never heard Combs in person(want to) but he sure sounds wonderful on the recordings I have.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jerry
Date: 2013-12-18 16:24
"...expeiencing the clarinet vibrating under one's fingers..."
This sounds like a line from The Music Man when Professor Harold Hill was discussing achieving perpetual motion with one of his young students. I achieved that once - clarinet vibrating under my fingers, that is.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-12-19 01:12
You can feel the reed vibrating on your lip.
Just have someone else turn the clarinet in their direction, and blow on just the mouthpiece with them holding/playing your Clarinet.
Voicing can make quite a difference in your sound.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-19 04:04
Feeling vibration through your fingertips has a lot to do with relaxation. If you don't mash your fingertips on the keys, but let them come down and stay down with minimum pressure, feeling the vibration becomes fairly easy.
If you see impressions of the rings on your fingertips, you're pressing too hard.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-20 23:08
I wanted to check this again before rebuttal, but there IS a distinct, quite pronounced vibration present THROUGHOUT the range of the horn at ALL DYNAMICS if you are using your air correctly. Even mashing your fingers into the holes won't suppress this vibration. So I say again, if you don't experience this, perhaps you need to revisit how you produce sound on the clarinet.
Also there was a VERY important omission on my part regarding "how to sound like Larry Combs." He is amongst the great musicians and as such one of the true distinguishing factors is his incredible sense of rhythm that comes across in everything he plays. This is as I have said before NOT machine like plodding along as much as the heightened sense of the PROPORTION of one note's length of time to that of the next.
This may not make sense at first but, the best, most accessible example is listening to Frank Sinatra sing.
.................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-21 00:41
I agree on Larry Combs's outstanding rhythmic accuracy. It may have been Ed Palanker who said that Chicago whittled down the list of finalists to the only four who played with flawless rhythm.
Frank Sinatra said he learned everything he knew from Mabel Mercer. She recorded toward the end of her life, when her voice was in tatters, but she's still the class of the world http://www.amazon.com/Art-Mabel-Mercer/dp/B00005MKCN/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1387570296&sr=1-1&keywords=mabel+mercer.
A friend loaned me this CD and I put it on for what I though would be background music. I was stunned from the first note and listened as in a trance all the way through.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-21 22:44
Found this on YOUTUBE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_q0-Wn1ucI
..........thanks Ken,
....................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
