 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MSK
Date: 2013-11-26 02:21
In recent weeks I've had two different directors (community orchestra and church music) ask me to play something in "Klezmer style". The pieces in question are a Hanuka medley and the song "Light One Candle to Watch for Messiah". I have no experience with playing Klezmer and only Youtube experience of hearing it.
How should I adjust my playing to sound Klezmer like? I'm coming from more of a classical orchestra and concert band background, with a little bit of swing jazz experience thrown in.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-11-26 02:32
I assume you have to be born a Greek or Turkish person.
The players of this style of folk music that you watch on U-tube have been playing this style of Clarinet all their lives. They don't play any other way.
This is an Eastern European folk style of music outside the music world that most of us are use to.
But of course you could 'learn' it , kind of, if you have a whole lot of time , but it won't sound the genuine thing. (Unless you've got Greek or Turkish blood in your veins
I love the sound of this type of Clarinet playing (mostly Albert Simple System) , especially accompanying a female folk singer.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2013-11-26 02:40)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2013-11-26 03:07
Sorry, Greeks and Turks don't play Klezmer per se. They play Greek and Turkish music. Many times people who hear my band (we play Balkan music--Bulgarian, Serbian, Macedonian, Albanian, Greek, Romanian, and Romany) comment that to them (Americans) it sounds like Klezmer.
What's similar is some of the scales/modes. Not much else is similar. There are different styles of ornaments in both Klezmer and Balkan folk or folk-pop genres. "Smears" exist in both but don't sound identical.
Klezmer is typically a style of folk music begun in Eastern Europe further north from the Balkans and performed by Ashkenazic Jews. Western Ukraine, parts of Poland and Slovakia, northern Romania/eastern Hungary...etc. American klezmer features more wind instruments (clarinet, trumpet, sax, trombone) than the original stuff from Europe (violin, tsimbal/dulcimer, bass etc). American klezmer was also influence by and influence Yiddish theater music in New York City and its environs in the 1920s-30s.
What's likely requested by your directors is vibrato. The tunes probably already have the mode/scale built in. The main ornament you'll use is the krekh. Ralph Katz might have more to say on it; my experience is Balkan...
Post Edited (2013-11-26 03:08)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-11-26 03:51
You learned to play in band and orchestra by listening to what others did and through guidance from the conductor. In swing/jazz band, you did the same, and undoubtedly listened to jazz performers and copied what they did.
Playing klezmer style is not something you can learn overnight, because it involves things you haven't done before, and in fact have been taught to avoid, such as pitch bending, wide vibrato and big changes in tone color. You also need to learn how scales other than major and minor work. Just as you did before, you learn by listening and imitating until you get the feel for it. Begin by listening to Dave Tarras on YouTube, who's about the best there is.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-11-26 05:33
Thanks Katrina for the interesting information on this subject.
It's obviously a vast subject concerning the various styles that is quite different from the styles that we who originated from Western Europe are use to.
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Author: Late_returner
Date: 2013-11-26 08:38
Katrina
In your Balkans and E Europe music would the taragota have provided the woodwind in the past ?
Has the clarinet now largely replaced it ?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-26 09:34
I was told the clarinet replaced the violin in Klezmer bands, although the violin is still a staple instrument.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-11-26 11:05
Chris P wrote:
> I was told the clarinet replaced the violin in Klezmer bands,
> although the violin is still a staple instrument.
>
when you listen to Klezmer clarinet you can hear violin bowing technique; up/down, short phrasing..
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-26 12:01
If you're in the clarinet chair in 'Fiddler on the Roof', please don't play it dead straight! It just doesn't work.
Listen to some Klezmer players and do as much as you can to emulate what they do to give it the life and soul this music has.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-11-26 12:16
I can't believe some commentators believe Klezmer is hard to learn. Just watch some YouTube videos of groups playing it, loosen up your embochure, gliss a lot and let the vibrato rule.......
Bob Draznik
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2013-11-26 13:00
I'm with Bob here. Listen to some youtube videos. Let your ears do the thinking.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2013-11-26 13:19
Taragot is an instrument used in Hungary and Romania. It wasn't a predecessor to the clarinet there; it's used more than the clarinet in certain areas.
Clarinet "replaced" folk instruments like gaida (bagpipe) and/or kaval (end-blown flute). They're actually still used too. When the Ottoman bands (which were influenced by Napoleon's bands in the early 19th century and therefore had clarinets) came through various areas in the Balkans, if a local musician heard these clarinets and liked the sound, they'd attempt to acquire one or even to make one. Typically the musician played a "folk" woodwind first.
Additionally, class was a factor in certain areas. The upper classes wanted to have "the latest thing" from Western Europe even if their current political state was part of the Ottoman Empire. Dance music (foxtrots, tangos, etc.) became "city music" by the 1920s and 1930s and jazz and swing were also common at that time. In rural areas, some musicians would have heard some of this music as well and attempted to copy instrumentation in their own folk traditions as well.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-11-26 15:30
The tarogato is a wooden soprano saxophone. It has a conical bore and overblows at the octave. Like the saxophone, and unlike the clarinet, it requires practice and proper voicing to keep the low notes from jumping up the octave. In return, the high notes come easier than on the clarinet.
The tarogato us used in Balkan music, but I haven't heard it in Klezmer (though I'll admit I'm no Kezmer expert and will welcome correction on this).
For gorgeous tarogato playing (but no folk affect), listen to Csaba Nagy.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2013-11-26 15:49
Ken,
Taragot/Tarogato are _not_ used in Balkan music proper. They're used in Transylvanian (and Romanian and Hungarian) music which is in a completely different mountain range...The Carpathians.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-11-26 18:53
If you've got time, look for music scores by Giora Feidman. "The Dance of Joy" is klezmer, with chords, for C or Bb clarinet. Ritual disclaimer: I'm not only an amateur but a shiksa and when I try to play klezmer, I sound about the way you'd expect. But if I were any good at it, I think listening to the YouTube stuff and then putting the listening to use in practicing from Feidman's collection probably would help.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-11-26 19:58
Also check out Tom Puwalski who posts here sometimes and plays a whole lotta Klezmer nowadays.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-11-26 23:08
Perhaps it would help to listen to some records, such as those by clarinetist Mickey Katz. He had a radio program years ago featuring Klesmer music from Chicago, sponsered by a hot dog company (hot dogalas, he said). Try You Tube. Use a wide vibrato and slurp up to notes.
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Author: MSK
Date: 2013-11-27 02:13
Thanks for the suggestions on specific artists to listen to. I'm hardly going to become a Klezmer musician in 2 weeks, but I can certainly gliss and vibrate more to give at least a hint of the style.
Just curious. Is there a particular advantage to using and Albert system instrument like easier glissing or something or is it just the custom?
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-11-27 03:37
Hi again Katrina. I was wondering if you'd know what the Greek and Turkish style of folk Clarinet playing is called ?
I notice that on Utube they mostly use the Simple System (Albert) and often they seem to be playing the long G Alto.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-27 12:29
Albert/simple systems have larger toneholes so are much clearer in the lower register compared to Boehm systems on notes such as B, C, and E - they also favour being played in keys of G and D.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2013-11-27 14:30
Yup it's called Greek or Turkish...Depending on where the player and/or the tune is from!
They typically play simple system, and the Turkish guys use low G clarinets more than the Greeks. Sometimes the Greek guys will use a C or a Bb or an A in addition to the G...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-27 15:55
I've seen Klezmer players using full Boehms with the microphone right in the bell, so having the low E and middle B issue from the lowest tonehole won't cause any problems compared to if it was a standard length clarinet where E/B issue directly from the bell.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-11-27 18:18
"I have always thought Klezmer was Jewish/Yiddish"......That's an interesting observation. The thing is that Jewish people live and have lived in every part of the world and take their music wherever they go. I just listened to some Roumanian Taragot music based on one of the posts and found some of it very jewish. I note too a very popular Klez piece is "Roumania, roumania". I've always thought that Albert was used because it was the only instrument the player owned.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-11-27 18:46
Katrina. I was wondering though, if there is a local folk name for Greek or Turkish style Clarinet playing just like there's the Yiddish folk name (Klezmer) for their style of playing.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2013-11-27 18:50)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2013-11-27 19:56
Nope...Just Greek or Turkish in Greek or Turkish (or others...) folk music
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-11-28 12:37
I've been under the impression that Yiddish is an Ashkenazi jewish type language...primarily German in origin. If that is true,Barry, then are you implying that Klezmer originated among those peoples? {Or was it Khazar in origin...!}'
I tend to agree with such an implication...but don't really know for sure. (Barry, you're not related to the Barry Sisters, are you?)
Bob Draznik
Post Edited (2013-11-28 12:41)
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-11-28 18:20
Hi Bob. Yes, I think you're correct concerning the term Yiddish.
When I hear "Klezmer Style" Clarinet playing my ears 'tell' me "Gypsy" music.
But using the word "Gypsy" is incorrect. It really should be termed Roma music. Apparently the word "Gypsy" originated way back when Roma people were thought to have originally came from Egypt which is incorrect.
You said
"The thing is that Jewish people live and have lived in every part of the world and take their music wherever they go"
The same would be correctly said about Roma people. So perhaps there is a lot of "Klezmer" Clarinet playing to be heard in Greece & Turkey as well.
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-11-28 18:26
Ok, here's the Merriam-Webster definition:
klez·mer
noun \ˈklez-mər\
plural klez·mo·rim
Definition of KLEZMER
1
: a Jewish instrumentalist especially of traditional eastern European music
2
: the music played by klezmorim
See klezmer defined for kids »
Origin of KLEZMER
Yiddish, from Hebrew kĕlēy zemer musical instruments
First Known Use: 1908"
I suggest most Klezmer clarinetists would concur...
Gary K
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2013-11-28 18:57
Romany and Klezmer music can sound similar and frequently Jews and Roma (both being "outcast" societies) bonded over music.
IMO, the breadth of Romany music (in that the Roma musicians adopted and adapted local music wherever they were) even in Eastern Europe and the Balkans surpasses that of Klezmer. The ornaments and usage of the ornaments differs, the rhythms and meters differ. About the only similar thing is the use of the mode "Hijaz" (word taken from Turkish) which is the same as the mode "Freygish" (used in Klezmer). (pitches involved in D concert Hijaz/Freygish are D Eb F# G A Bb C D.)
Another point to be taken is the difference between Klezmer music and Sephardic music. Sephardi Jews are Jews who resided on the Iberian peninsula and their diaspora and descendants. Like the Roma, the Jews were not a singular tribe of nomads who got shuffled around to different places. Sephardic music shows more North African, Moorish, and Spanish influence than the Arabic and Turkish influences found in Ashkenazic Klezmer music.
Ultimately there is no one "Klezmer" style nor is there one "Jewish" style nor is there one "Middle Eastern" style, etc etc...
This was not intended to be concise...I'm rambling various thoughts as they come into my mind. FWIW and as a warning...
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-11-28 19:43
Hey Katrina - go ahead and ramble on; this is all very interesting and educational. I am a fan of Klezmer clarinet music as played by Israel Zohar and Oleg Lapidus, but I enjoy listening to other varieties also.
Wherever it is from, good music is just that - there is no language barrier!
Gary K
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-11-29 15:04
>which instruments are they?
Glad you asked, made me look a little further and found http://www.klezmer-music.com/ where it states:
"Klezmer is a Yiddish combination of two Hebrew words "Kley Zemer" which means musical instruments. Klezmer music started in Eastern Europe by Jewish musicians."
"The klezmer instruments were usually accoustic and included clarinet, violin, accordeon, accoustic guitar and a grand bass."
Don't get me wrong - I am by no means a student of klezmer or its history - I just really get into this music, and find this fascinating...
Gary K
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-11-30 04:19
"Kley Zemer" doesn't mean musical instruments. "Kley" means instruments (in this context, it has other meanings) but "Zemer" is hard to translate but means something like "singing", or "music that is sung".
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