 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Siq
Date: 2013-11-20 21:32
Hi everyone,
I'm a (former) clarinet student willing to upgrade from my B10 to a new E12F. I've read Kessler's review and it seems to be a solid buy. Besides, I've always wanted to have a wooden clarinet.
I was thinking about buying it from AZ Musical Instruments, online. Browsing through their eBay listing, I found this:
"We give you the option to have your clarinet professionally inspected,
adjusted, and " play tested" by our wind instrument specialist: Gary Flowers
at our band instrument shop, ARIZONA MUSIC in Prescott, AZ.
This could make a BIG difference.
Not all clarinets are not in tip-top shape, and many do not play correctly right out of the box.
Our PROFESSIONAL INSPECTION takes a little more time
(usually about an extra week) because of double shipping.
But it's well worth it, knowing your clarinet has been pretested and inspected BEFORE you receive it."
Dave also said:
"However, the E12F take a lot of time in new setup to make them play up to their potential."
I'd like to know if you think this "Play Tested" option from AZ Musical Instruments is worth. It's only $25 (over the original $1200).
I don't know much about what should I do to make it play up to its potential, so I figured I should ask you for advice.
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Author: discerningclarinetist
Date: 2013-11-20 21:43
Most professional clarinetists buy a clarinet and then have it completely overhauled before playing it. This is because something could be not how they like it when it leaves the factory (I.E. pads not sealing, 1-1 bb not sealing, ect). I think it could be worth it. You could also look on eBay. There are some sellers who sell better models than the E12F for less than 1,200. If you watch carefully enough, you could probably find one with a return policy and that is professionally adjusted.
Tyler Zey
www.discerningclarinetist.com
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-11-20 22:32
A really good woodwind shop should unpack check and adjust and test any instrument they sell before giving/shipping to a customer - if they don't then buy elsewhere.
OK this is not the same as "professional set-up" but then
1) the E12 is not a professional instrument and
2) such a set-up will cost quite a bit extra.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-11-21 00:58
I don't know anything about Gary Flowers as a technician or a clarinetist. He's listed among the personnel of the Prescott Chamber Music Society, which doesn't seem to be a professional ensemble. He may be very good (at both clarinet repair and clarinet playing) or not.
If the E12F takes "a lot of time" to set up, he's undercharging for the shop time involved, so the $25 seems like a way to add a little onto the cost without adding so much that it would scare customers away either from the "professional setup" or from the purchase itself.
Most sellers will promise to make any needed adjustments within a certain time period (often as long as a year) gratis, so they have an incentive to sell it in good condition in the first place to avoid having to spend too much time on customers' return visits. Good condition should be part of the sale.
Do you actually live in Rio De Janeiro? Isn't there a place more local to buy the clarinet? You don't mention shipping costs from AZ Music, but you'd avoid those and be able to have future adjustments done by the seller without shipping back and forth. As you play an instrument you invariably find little things you'd like to personalize. As things on the instrument acclimate to regular use, things may go out of adjustment and need to be tweaked.
IMO you're better off, buying locally, buy if you decide to buy long-distance, having your own local tech whom you trust and have him or her do any setup or adjustment after you get the instrument. The shop work may cost more (if a lot of work is really needed), but there's value in dealing with a local repair person who is conveniently available.
Karl
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2013-11-21 01:48
Not quite the same model instrument, but Canada's Long and McQuade chain currently has the E11 for under 1K CDN and there's a $100 gift card bonus, regular price is $1200 CDN, and they have online ordering, have had it for at least a couple of years. And the Canadian dollar is a little lower than the US one, $1 CDN being about 95 cents US currently, and on a major purchase that's a big savings. It's their holiday special.
(I don't work for them, I saw it in their holiday mailing that I got recently)
Meri
Please check out my website at: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com and my blog at: http://clariniano.wordpress.com
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Author: Siq
Date: 2013-11-21 09:03
Thank you all for your response.
@discerningclarinetist
Thank you for the info. I'm not (even close to) a professional clarinetist so I guess I don't need this kind of professional complete overhaul, but I now understand why it's needed. Please, tell me which clarinets would you recommend me, as you said there may be better clarinets on eBay at the same price point.
@Norman Smale
Thank you. As I've stated in response to Tyler, I believe I don't need a professional setup, and as you said, the e12f isn't a professional instrument. I'd appreciate if you could broaden my options in terms of where to buy this instrument in the US.
@kdk
Thank you for the complete response. As for the undercharging comment you've made, there's something I forgot to mention: this service is supposed to be free, as a courtesy of AZ Musical instruments, being the $25 a "double shipping" cost. Of course, again, I also don't know the quality of the service. If he just looks at the clarinet, nods, and ships it back to me, I will never know.
Yes, I live in Rio, but I'm going to the US for a year as a computer engineering exchange student. Due to insanely high import duties, any clarinet you can think of would cost at least twice to three times the price in the US, which makes it unattractive to buy it here.
@clariniano
Ill definitely take a look at that. Thanks for the tip!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-11-21 14:18
You get what you pay for. A $25 "play test" means only that the clarinet has been put together and played for a few seconds to make sure there's nothing grossly wrong, such as a pad that's fallen out. It's a way for the seller to make a little extra on the sale price.
You can tell as well as anyone whether a new clarinet is playable. If you don't feel sure enough about your playing, take the clarinet to your teacher or to a repair shop and have it checked over to make sure everything works and the pads are sealing. A simple check-over like this shouldn't run you more than $25 unless a pad needs replacing.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-11-21 15:13
I'd do a play test AND replace a pad for less than $25.......
Bob Draznik
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Author: discerningclarinetist
Date: 2013-11-21 15:18
Buffet R13's on eBay and other used dealers can get below 1,200 sometimes. Not all the time. But usually several a week. Just watch out for people trying to sell without return policies or trying to sell clarinets older than the 1960's. The R13 started in 1955 right? I think people tend to agree that the best R13s are from the 70's.
Hope it helps.
Tyler Zey
www.discerningclarinetist.com
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-11-22 15:28
@Bob Draznik
> I'd do a play test AND replace a pad for less than $25.......
there had been times when after dealing with one particular pad I'd taken you up on that offer :(
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Author: BandEE
Date: 2013-11-22 18:45
Sig, if you are going to the University of Arizona, check the Chicago Store in downtown Tucson. They have been there since 1919 and usually had a good selection of used clarinets when I was in engineering school at the U of Az in the early 1990s. You can play before you buy and try mouthpieces while you're at it. I picked up a nice Leblanc Symphonie 3 in A that is a keeper.
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Author: Siq
Date: 2013-11-22 22:06
@Ken Shaw
So you think I should save these $25 dollars and then after I've played the instrument, take it to a local repair shop to have it checked-over? Sounds like a reasonable option. Thank you.
@discerningclarinetist
Thanks, Tyler, I'll keep an eye on the eBay listings.
@BandEE
Thanks for the tip. Next year, after I found out where I'm going to, I'm going to get back to you for more advice.
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Author: Siq
Date: 2013-11-26 00:45
@Topic
Just to get it off my conscience, I had to ask them of what consisted this "test" of theirs. I know we cannot fully (or even partially) trust their answer, but I thought it should be posted here.
"Hi Gabriel
Not a simple test.
It is thoroughly inspected for cracks, blemishes, and any defects.
Then shop adjusted by our Band Instrument Shop.
Then play tested by Gary Flowers (head Woodwind Instructor) at our Music School
He has a Masters in Clarinet.
Thanks.
Russell,
ARIZONA MUSIC"
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Author: tiagocunha
Date: 2013-12-10 11:48
You should study well your alternatives, the US is a fantastic world to clarinet buyingand you might be lucky and pick a fantastic 2nd hand clarinet from classifieds or shops. Um abraço de Portugal, Tiago
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-12-10 12:30
Quote:
Most professional clarinetists buy a clarinet and then have it completely overhauled before playing it.
FWIW- I have never done this. I have brought them to my tech to adjust some key tensions and heights to my liking and do a check for any pads that may need reseating. I think that a complete overhaul is overkill. I would rather spend time getting to know the instrument and then have more extensive work done 6 months or a year later if needed.
I would not expect too much for a $25 up charge, but then again, it is pretty cheap, so it wouldn't set you back much.
Post Edited (2013-12-10 14:50)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-12-10 18:07
I bought an E12F to beat around with, and it sealed a .25!!!!!!!
That seal is better than any Pro instrument I have ever seen straight out of the factory.
It may or may not need much at all.
But do have it play tested.
The Clarinet is NOT as good as an R-13, which IS a Pro horn, not the E12F - it's good for a school student/amateur, etc, but don't consider it a Pro Model at all.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-12-10 21:33
When I worked in Rio for two months in the late 1960s, I did not find one store that sold or repaired clarinets, but it must be different now. I worked on the Intelsat Satellite Earth Station at Itaborae.
I've successfully bought about 15 instruments without trying them and been happy with all of them. The clarinets from the factory have generally had poor pads so they usually were overhaulled by me, except for a Prestige Buffet, which only needed minor rework. The Selmer saxophones have also needed a lot of work to play their best.
It is recommended that you pay the $25 and get it. Then you can have it rechecked and adjusted for your feel by a local repair shop, even if you have to go to Sao Paulo. You may find that the springs are set too heavy or the rings are set too high, common with Buffets. Good luck!
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Author: Siq
Date: 2014-01-30 07:15
Just updating: today I walked into a music shop in Orlando and they had the e12f. Of course I couldn't leave without testing it. The seller was very nice, lent me a vandoren mouthpiece and a brand new reed.
By reading what you guys had to say, I wasn't expecting much of an improvement over my B10, but, I was wrong. The main difference was, of course, the characteristic sound of a wooden instrument. I've always felt that my sound was very different from what I'd heard on recordings. It wasn't much of what I associate with clarinet and a little bit more of a sax.
Notice, however, that I'm exaggerating to make myself understood. After playing with the e12f, there was the smoother sound I associate with clarinet.
I couldn't play much, it was night, I was completely out of practice, with a hard brand new reed, but I really enjoyed it. The look of the unstained grenadilla wood with colorless varnish and silver plating impressed me very much. I'm looking forward to buying it later on this year.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-01-30 07:45
Siq wrote:
> I've always felt that my sound was very different
> from what I'd heard on recordings.
Most of the pro players I've listened to - even major clarinetists in major symphonies - don't sound live like they do on recordings. You really need to hear live models of instrumental sound.
Karl
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Author: Siq
Date: 2014-01-30 17:44
@kdk
Thank you for pointing that out. I've also noticed that. What I wanted, though, was to emphasize the difference in sound that I felt. Not necessarily for better or for worse, because I'm a choro player and, for that kind of music, I've always got compliments on my sound. It's just different, more velvety maybe, and more what I associate with clarinet.
@David
Thank you for the suggestion. Rest assured that I'll search and try other clarinets before making my decision. It's only going to happen 6 months from now, so there's a lot that can happen in the meantime.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-01-31 22:17
I don't see the Lyrique Libertas listed on Tom's website yet. Can you tell us more about it? Is it wood or composite? Is it much of a departure from the Opus and previous Lyrique models?
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2014-01-31 23:36
I've purchased from Kessler's and couldn't be happier. Chuck Kessler was the technician who made certain my clarinet was in perfect shape before shipping it. If I've ever had a question or an issue, the person with whom I'm always able to speak is Dave Kessler. I've never experienced frustration when working with them. They can ALWAYS answer my questions and address my issues. I've not found that to be true when calling the BIG on-line music/instrument/accessirues dealers. If I ever decide to upgrade, they're whom I will call first.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-02-01 01:24
So now for $2,000 or less players can choose between the new Lyrique Libertas, the new Backun Alpha, and the new Backun Protege that promise high quality and original design for the price. Who's going to be the first to try these three contenders at the same time and write a detailed comparison?
David, is the Libertas by any chance the mysterious "XXX" clarinet that you spoke of recently as dark-toned and playing better than your Prestiges? But the XXX had silver plated keys and I assume the Libertas does not?
Another guess is one of the GAO line, perhaps the Viennese bore, but these are certainly not "student cheap" to buy. I guess I'll have to keep guessing.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-01 15:07
The Lyrique Libertas is made of hard rubber, just like the 576bc. It costs around $1600 I think. It came with a supposedly pro mouthpiece too (or cheaper if you don't want the mouthpiece). I ordered one. It should arrive soon - can't wait.
There's only a very brief mention of it on their facebook "page" (search for Wm Thomas Ridenour)
Their site is _really_ bad / basic, and their facebook "page" is actually a person page, not a proper "page".
Here you go. There's even a picture of it.
https://www.facebook.com/wm.ridenour
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-02-01 21:40
There's no "supposedly" Pro Mouthpiece - it is a very good, and high quality Mouthpiece.
I've had several students who played them over the years, and Tom does make a very good Pro Mouthpiece.
Tom's a Clarinet Manufacturer, not a web designer. Sure it could be in flash, etc, etc, but there are plenty of websites that aren't updated with really modern coding.
Mine is still from the mid 2000's, which was originally made in the 90's.
Works for me!
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Siq
Date: 2014-04-30 01:09
Does anyone know any instrument shop near Santa Barbara/Isla Vista ?
Post Edited (2014-04-30 01:10)
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Author: Siq
Date: 2014-12-04 02:49
Just to give you an update on my situation: I decided not to get the E12F and, instead, I've bought a Backun Protege (Grenadilla). It should arrive next week. I hope I've made the right decision.
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