 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2013-11-16 02:12
So I've finally saved up a respectable sum of money, I won't say how much but I will say that it's enough to afford either a low c bass clarinet or a contra alto. Right now bass clarinet is my main instrument so it would be nice to play the same instrument but I also feel that contra alto would have more opportunities in a wind ensemble and would just be more fun. Which clarinet would be more useful? Also has anyone ever tried the allora low c?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-16 04:14
I think your best bet is get a pro level low C bass (such as a Buffet Prestige or Uebel Emperior) and then either a Bundy or Vito contra-alto with the remainder - or even a used Selmer (Paris) rosewood contra-alto if you find one within your budget.
An EEb contra is very useful for playing bassoon, tuba or string bass parts on as it's an easy transposition (same applies for bari sax as it's the same pitch) - with the notes in the same place, change the clef from bass to treble and add three sharps/subtract three flats from the key signature and adjust the accidentals as you go. So a bottom line Concert pitch bass clef G is E (xoo|ooo) on EEb contra.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-11-16 05:49
I guess it depends what yo uwant to do and/or what you do.
I play a low C bass clarinet. I tried a relatively simple (i.e. low Eb) contra alto and found it mostly useless considering the hassle of just carrying it. I couldn't imagine using it instead of my bass and it offered very little more.
Getting a very good contra alto, instead of a bass, would also be far less useful to me, but this again depends on whether you actually play contra more than bass I guess. I would first get an excellent instument for the one I play more.
If I remember, some people mentioned a contra alto can be very useful for transposing bassoon parts in wind bands, something I never do, so can't comment on that.
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Author: dibble
Date: 2013-11-16 08:36
I think the contra alto sounds like some primordial sea creature in the clarion and above (which I love), and the bass sounds more like a human voice.
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Author: super20bu6
Date: 2013-11-16 11:26
This question has been asked before...and the discussion will always continue. Each person will have their own answer for you, jdbass. My first Low C Bass was an Orpheo....not what I wanted but it was the only thing available in my price range at the time. I used it for rehearsals and concerts with a really good community band playing modern pieces written with the extended range bass clarinet in mind. The Bb Clarinet section didn't know I was playing a plastic bass....side by side with a Selmer Low C Bass and a Buffet Low C Bass. The Selmer Low C Bass player seems to have several issues with her extended range. Can't comment on the build quality or her maintenance of the instrument.....but she's not some young/beginning player that would tend to not maintain the instrument. My Orpheo with a Fobes San Francisco mouthpiece worked fine for me. However, I did finally get the Bass Clarinet I wanted this summer. I found a Leblanc 330.....low C but single vent register key mechanism. I also have a Leblanc 400 Bass to Low Eb.
The statements about an Eb Contra and transposing bass clef parts are all valid...but not something I've had to do in the last couple of years. I have a Selmer/Bundy Eb Contra, again, a Fobes San Francisco Mouthpiece and the thing plays like a dream. We typically have all the parts covered in my community band...so having to transpose parts hasn't been required of me. I prefer the Selmer/Bundy Contra over the Vito Contra as the Selmer/Bundy has all 4 side keys (Eb, F#, B trill, C Trill) while the Vito's only have the Eb side key.
Merely an estimation.....about 40% of the music we play with that group has parts requiring the Low C Bass. About 30% of the music has an Eb Contra part....and about 10% of the music calls for a Bb Contra.
I believe you can find reviews of the Allora Basses on this forum...or elsewhere on the web...and I may be the only person that has actually used the Orpheo and reviewed it...at least on this forum. I KNOW that many people dislike the Allora/Orpheo imported basses....and I'll admit, they are not built as well as the Leblanc/Selmer/Buffet instruments.......but if you're careful with them, they can work just fine. I admit the keywork on my Orpheo is "flimsy" compared to a Selmer...but one can adapt to it just fine. I just prefer the Leblanc basses...and I love the "forked Ab/Eb" and do not miss the left hand Ab/Eb key at all.
Personally, I would say get a Selmer/Bundy Eb Contra first....add to the remainder and get a Low C Bass at a later date. But if the music you're performing requires the Low C Bass now, then look for a good used Low C Bass now and continue to save up for the Eb Contra. As clarnibass stated above.....get the one first that you would use the most and for which you have the most need. I know of several people on this forum that use the Selmer/Bundy Eb Contra and never have the issues of wood cracking or humidity/temperature changes affecting the instrument.
Also.....you must consider transportation of the Eb Contra. Those cases for the plastic models are long....about 52 inches......as the instruments weren't built to be taken apart all the time. You have to have a vehicle large enough to have the Contra case across the back seat....or fold down rear seats to haul it in the trunk. Granted, an SUV or station wagon is the easy way to transport them. Just consider transportation in your decision. My case would fit across the rear seat of a Honda Accord...and would touch the door panels...so a Civic would be out of the question for rear seat hauling.
On a side note....IF you do get the Eb Contra...you need to think about an instrument stand so you can swap from Bass to Contra. I use the Hercules Bass Clarinet/Bassoon stand as it will hold either the Bass Clarinet or the Eb Contra.
Sorry to ramble on so long..........
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-11-16 15:17
re playing bassoon on Contra Alto - I've had a bassoon player sit next to me, and in many scores there was a wild mix of bass and various tenor/alto clefs on the sheet and I'm not all that certain how you could just "play away" with a merry mix of sharps and flats sprinkled over your sheet.
Range? Sure, CAC can do it. But be prepared to rearrange your music or learn to key where no man has keyed before...
--
Ben
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-11-16 15:35
How many paying gigs will you get on a bass? on Contra?
A bass player without a pro level instrument isn't a pro, and won't get many gigs...
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: davyd
Date: 2013-11-16 17:16
An upgraded bass clarinet would be more versatile. Besides concert band, you could play it in orchestra. If you're a doubler, the bass clarinet is useful for pit playing, and the additional low range can come in handy. The contra alto would be useful only in concert band. The only area where the contra alto might be more useful is in clarinet choir, as an ensemble might be less likely to have one already.
Some concert band pieces have parts for contra alto, but most don't. If you go that route, plan to do a lot of transposing, from Bb contra bass clarinet, or Bb bass saxophone, or bassoon, or contrabassoon, or bass clarinet, or tuba, or whatever is available.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2013-11-16 17:39
I have played with a high level wind ensemble for a number of years. I can count on one hand (and still have fingers left over) the number of pieces that call for a contra alto. I'd suggest you stick with bass.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2013-11-16 18:39
Thanks everyone, I guess I'll stick with bass for now. Plus I can use my current mouthpiece setup instead of buying a new setup for contra. BTW I have read off a trombone part on my alto clarinet with limited success.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-11-16 20:54
Hint: for any given piece of music, ask your librarian if there's an Alto Clarinet part. Now add both numbers of AC parts vs the number of pieces, then divide by ≥ 2. This will give you the yield of usable CAC opportunities....
--
Ben
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-11-17 05:10
Just to add that my point of view is mainly from the position of choosing what to play and not being dependent on parts. In the world of "parts" the contra alto would be far less useful.
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Author: alto gether
Date: 2013-11-17 05:19
It is true that many arrangers neglect the (alto and) contra alto clarinet. Three things: (1) In a band where the bassoon and bari sax actually exist, contra alto may not feel useful; (2) Arrangers are seldom idiots, but they have to make some assumptions about what instruments exist, and it's usually possible to work out some kind of part that works; (3) Playing in a dance band where all that is written is melody and chords, contra alto is as good a low reed improv instrument as you could possibly find.
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Author: LCL
Date: 2013-11-17 13:26
Having two low c BCs, a Selmer rosewood CA and a Leblanc paperclip CB; I can report that by far, the BC gets the most use in a community band setting. On the few occasions where there is another BC, I have then switched to the CA or the CB. When using the CA, I most often read the tuba part and transpose as described above. When using the CB, I read the BC part and raise it an 8av, if necessary.
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Author: William Hughes ★2017
Date: 2013-11-18 15:28
For transportation of a one piece contra-alto (e.g. Bundy or Vito) I recommend a gig bag. There's a guy who sells them on e-bay. I have had mine for several years and it works well. I carry the accessories and music in a computer/messenger bag. It sure beats hauling around that long, heavy hard case.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-11-18 20:18
Most of the C/alto C/bass parts I have seen in concert band have merely doubled the Alto or Bass clarinet parts but with many passages omitted.
Not a lot to do there..
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-11-18 21:29
On the other hand, the vast majority of bass clarinet parts in concert band are doubled, at any given moment, by some or all of the following: tenor sax, baritone sax, bassoon, euphonium, trombone, tuba, French horn. I don't play in concert bands anymore, partly because of that. I like having a part to call my own, which happens much more frequently in orchestras than in concert bands. By no means are the contra-(alto or bass) clarinets the only lower clarinets that are frequently doubled in concert band -- the bass clarinet is mostly unimportant as well.
I recently attended a concert by a top-notch concert band (playing at a professional level though unpaid), a group in which I used to play bass clarinet with occasional doubling on contra-alto, alto or Eb sopranino -- and I was struck by how little impact the bass clarinets had, over the course of the concert. They had very few solo/soli lines. Their tone color was mostly submerged in the tutti of all those other instruments I've mentioned. Had they not been present at all I think it would have made precious little musical difference to the audience.
But as Nitai has been trying to point out, there's a big musical world outside of the familiar concert band and symphony orchestra circles. In the end, an instrument is an INSTRUMENT -- a tool, a means to accomplish a musical end at a certain time for a particular situation. There is no single solution.
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