 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: steelejackson
Date: 2013-11-13 19:47
I am in 12th grade symphonic band. My director gave me a student mouthpiece (Clarke W Fobes Debut) That i have used for a while. I decided a couple of weeks ago that i needed to upgrade my mouthpiece, considering that the one I was using was a lower quality mouthpiece. I went online and looked up mouthpieces. I went to the vandoren website and read that the b45 dot seemed like it would work the best (I went to vandoren first because i use their reeds). The website says that the b45 dot had greater playing ease than just the regular b45. So i ordered it. I came a few days later, and i tried it out. It worked on my vandoren v12 #3 reeds at first, but now, a couple days later, the sound is coming on and off. It takes a lot of air to get the sound out. Is this from the type of reeds i'm using, or is it the mouthpiece? I noticed that the end of the tray of the mouthpiece is thinner, similar to the heel width of the rue lepic 56 reeds. Not sure if I should try those or just open a new v12 size 3 reed.
Thanks!
Steele
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2013-11-13 20:19
The B45. has a larger chamber comparing to the regular B45. The tip opening is large (1.119), so you may like softer reeds on that mouthpiece.
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2013-11-13 20:24
Try using softer reeds for the B45 dot. Your new mouthpiece is more open than the Debut you were playing on. A 5RV may be closer to what your Debut felt like, so if you like the closer feel, you can try one of those mouthpieces. Have you tried multiple reeds to make sure that your reeds aren't warped or that the mouthpiece isn't warped?
Good luck!
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Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: steelejackson
Date: 2013-11-13 20:36
@gsurosey I bought the mouthpiece brand new. What's an example of a softer reed? like a 2.5? i've used size 3 since freshman year. I like the tone of size 3, did I get the wrong mouthpiece?
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Author: steelejackson
Date: 2013-11-13 21:06
Or should i try a traditional vandoren #3 reed instead of v12? aren't traditional vandoren reeds softer than v12 reeds?
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2013-11-13 21:24
What reed strength you use is dependent on the specifications of the mouthpiece, not how long you're been playing or how advanced you are (boy, do I wish I knew that when I was younger; it would've made my life a lot easier). In my experience, I've found that blue box reeds are harder than the V12s of the same number. If you play a V12 3, I'd say a blue box 2.5 is equivalent (or pretty close).
There is no right or wrong mouthpiece per se. The "right" one is the one that feels good to you, works well with your oral cavity, and helps you produce the results that you're looking for. Try some different reed strengths and even some different reed brands with the new mouthpiece and see what happens.
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Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2013-11-13 21:26
Just out of curiosity, what are you looking for in a new mouthpiece? Why are you switching? Knowing that can help narrow down what you're looking for in a new mouthpiece.
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Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-11-13 22:07
The Debut is an excellent mouthpiece, although at a great price. If you like the general feel of that type of facing, you could go with a Fobes Nova, which will be similar. If you want to go with Vandoren products, I would go with a M13lyre or perhaps M15. They are more in the ballpark and similar tip size as the Fobes. A B45 is drastically different.
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Author: steelejackson
Date: 2013-11-13 22:39
I thought that since my debut was a student mouthpiece, I needed to upgrade. Now I'm not so sure.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-11-13 23:02
And, to add to the recommendations about appropriate Vandoren facings, you can't put much faith in the descriptive blurbs you find in equipment ads of any kind. Vandoren has to say something good about every mouthpiece. No one is going to buy a mouthpiece "with a great blowing difficulty."
I would second Ed's positive assessment of the the Debut you already have. Fobes is a skilled and knowledgeable mouthpiece maker, which is reflected over his entire line of mouthpieces.
I would also second the suggestions that, if you want to try Vandorens, you try a facing (M13, M13 Lyre, M15, even a 5RV) that's more similar to the Debut than the B45 (dot or otherwise). There's a huge difference in feel between a medium long curve with a 1.19 mm tip opening and one with an opening between 1.03 mm and 1.06 mm.
Oh, and btw, B45 Dot is only listed in Vandoren's "Traditional" Series. The only B45 in Series 13 has no dot, lyre or anything else after it. The two series are made differently (for one thing, they tune differently).
I don't think you've necessarily picked a "wrong" mouthpiece (there are some players who use everything in the Vandoren catalog, or Vandoren wouldn't be making them). But you may have picked the wrong one for your needs.
One other idea to think about - reeds, if they aren't treated carefully at the beginning of their playing life, often don't play the way they did the first time after a day or two. If you're used to putting a new reed on the mouthpiece and playing a whole session on it, that may explain some of your complaint about the change in reed response on the B45 Dot. It isn't the mouthpiece, it's the reed itself. Most players use some kind of break-in process for new reeds - I won't go into detail because there have been many very long threads here in the past (and I may have just started another), which you can search for, but they all have in common the idea that you play only a little (maybe a couple of minutes or less) on a reed just out of the box and only gradually increase the playing time over several days. There's a lot of personal witchcraft associated with breaking in new reeds, but the basic idea almost certainly has merit.
Karl
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-11-13 23:07
"i've used size 3 since freshman year. I like the tone of size 3."
The clarinet, mouthpiece, reed, ligature and you are a system. I think that what you really liked was the #3 reed with the Fobes Debut mouthpiece. The architecture of the B45 Dot is quite different from the Fobes Debut. As a result, reeds that work fine with the Fobes may not (probably will not) work the same with the B45 Dot. Your new mouthpiece has introduced considerably more resistance (more back pressure = harder to blow) into your system. (A desire for more resistance is a good reason to try a mouthpiece like the B45 Dot.) If you really don't want more resistance, though, then you need to compensate somewhere else in the system and, as others have noted, the simplest way is to try a lighter reed, e.g., a 2.5. Before you decide that #3 V12s are too hard for your new mouthpiece, you should try several to rule out the possibility that you may just have a particularly heavy V12. Within a given strength for any Vandoren brand, there is some variation. If you try several #3 V12s and most of them are hard to blow, then you can rightly conclude that #3 V12 is too heavy for you.
"...did I get the wrong mouthpiece?"
Quite possibly. If you liked the way the Debut felt and sounded, you probably should have tried to find a mouthpiece more like it in design. In the price vicinity of Vandoren mouthpieces, probably the mouthpiece closest to the Fobes Debut would be the Fobes Nova. It's the same design but made of hard rubber instead of plastic.
"Or should i try a traditional vandoren #3 reed instead of v12? aren't traditional vandoren reeds softer than v12 reeds?"
Not really. If you look at Vandoren's recommendations for pairing reeds with their mouthpieces, you will see that the range for traditional Vandorens typically runs 1/2 strength less than the range for V12s. In other words, Vandoren considers their traditional reeds a little heavier than V12s of the same strength number. Personally, I think the difference in strength between traditional and V12 reeds of a given number is not as great as it used to be.
There are a couple other comments in your initial post that I want to address.
"I decided ... that i needed to upgrade my mouthpiece, considering that the one I was using was a lower quality mouthpiece."
Actually, a Fobes Debut is a good quality mouthpiece. It's well designed by a top-notch mouthpiece maker and carefully manufactured. Don't confuse low price (or "student model") with poor quality. Its price is low because it is primarily machine made and it is plastic. If it were truly low quality, it would not be nearly as popular among teachers as it is. And, IMO, there's no need to "upgrade" any mouthpiece unless there is something specific you don't like about the one you're using -- perhaps tone or intonation when using it, or its resistance, or your ability to articulate, or its performance in altissimo, or its physical condition.
"The website says that the b45 dot had greater playing ease than just the regular b45. So i ordered it."
Note, however, that this is a relative rather than absolute comparison. Even if the B45 Dot has greater playing ease than the B45, that doesn't mean it will be easy to play in general.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: TAS
Date: 2013-11-14 15:02
I would strongly recommend the Theodore Johnson TJ3 clarinet mouthpiece.
Ted Johnson, a retired Cleveland Orchestra clarinetist and a prized student of the legendary Jerome Stowell (Chicago Symphony) has taken the Frank Kasper (Cicero) design and made some acoustical improvements.
FYI the Kasper mouthpiece is the Holy Grail of clarinet mouthpieces. I owned three Kasper mouthpieces and this Johnson plays better than any of them. Since Johnson is in his 70's, I own three TJ3's so I will never despair from having one for the rest of my playing career.
You can get this mouthpiece at a limited number of dealers, The lowest price may be found at CIC instruments in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio.
The mouthpiece pairs well with a V12 Vandoren 3.5+ reed, or, a favorite of mine, the Gonzalez GD reed at 3 1/4 or 3 1/2.
The Vandoren B45 mouthpiece is a safe choice, but it is a Chevy compared to a Rolls Royce. That's how much better the Johnson mouthpiece is.
TAS
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