 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-11-04 01:59
Attachment: bell.JPG (153k)
The things students do...
Clarinets and concrete do not mix...
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-11-04 02:24
Not only students. Been there, done that. All you need is to be in a little too much of a hurry.
Karl
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2013-11-04 03:09
Send the bell to Independence Hall in Philadelphia, where it can keep the other cracked bell company, AND celebrate its own independence from its former owner.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-11-04 04:07
Plastic, I hope. If it's one of the standard student brands, you can go to the Goodwill auction site and pick up an entire clarinet for less than a new bell would cost.
Boats have been made out of (reinforced) concrete. Maybe a concrete bell is the answer.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-04 06:41
That's a wooden bell.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-11-04 12:54
Looks like "Bakelite" or hard rubber to me.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-11-04 12:55
It looks like plastic to me. Either way -- ouch! Things to warn students about:
Make sure the case latches are secure. If they're old and faulty, use a web strap, cinched snugly, all the way around the case. To make sure the strap can't slide off, pass it under the handle.
Make sure the clarinet corks are tight enough so the bell doesn't fall off.
If possible, don't play the expensive wooden clarinet outdoors.
Don't assume plastic clarinets are invulnerable. I've seen plenty of broken ones at flea markets.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-11-04 14:11
Believe it or not: Years ago I was working in my basement shop and accidentally dropped a prized Pomarico crystal bass clarinet mouthpiece on the concrete floor. I watched in horror as it bounced, and bounced, and finally came to a stop. I picked it up and it was undamaged. I still play that mouthpiece today.
But then again, I had had a similar incident about a year prior, in which my then-toddler daughter was about to fall down the stairs so I dove to catch her, dropping another Pomarico crystal mouthpiece in the process -- and that story didn't end so well. I caught the child, but the mouthpiece shattered into a million pieces. Same kind of mouthpiece, same floor.
The fracture properties of crystalline materials make for an interesting field of study.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-11-04 14:42
A few years back I was sorting my mouthpiece junk-box when I found a Leblanc crystal mouthpiece that I'd found in an old clarinet case. It had been there for some years and I'd never played it. I cleaned it, stuck a reed on and found the most wonderful mouthpiece I've ever played. For me it was just about perfect, particularly at the top end of the scale. It gave me control which I'd never experienced before. It was superb. Then I dropped it on the tile floor. It went off like a hand grenade, spraying bits all over the floor, the cat, me and everything else in sight. I've had good, even great mouthpieces since then, but nothing to compare with that gem. I've never found another one.
Tony F.
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Author: MSK
Date: 2013-11-04 16:25
I recently added the title of "middle school band parent" to my resume. (As opposed to adult clarinet player). While chaperoning the middle school marching band, I witnessed a clarinet sword fight, baton twirling with a flute and a trumpet bell resting on the track with it's owner leaning on it. Now I understand why our local repair shop is always so backed up.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-11-04 16:37
Clarinet sword fights were very common when I was coming up. We were as careful as junior high school boys can be to avoid contact.
Which way to hold it was problematic. The mouthpiece end was easier to hold, but the bell looked like a blunderbuss, not a sword. The mouthpiece looked appropriately sharp, but holding the clarinet at the other end wasn't easy.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-04 16:44
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,3347/bell.JPG
Plastic or Bakelite wouldn't break like that as they'd break in chunks rather than in long shards running the entire length of the bell - the cracks follow the grain lines that are characteristic of wood, plus plastic bells rarely have solid nickel silver bell rings fitted (like this one has) as they either have sheet metal ones that are pressure fitted or no bell ring at all.
I've seen enough cracked wooden bells and plastic ones to draw this conclusion.
I've accidentally flung a Vandoren B46 at a concrete floor - reason being I used PTFE tape to make it a tighter fit in the barrel socket, then after a show I shook the mouthpiece while in the barrel to shake out any excess moisture from it, then the mouthpiece shot out of the socket onto a concrete floor smashing the tip and side rails. I collected all the broken bits and superglued it all back together, tidied up the tip and side rails and continued to play on this mouthpiece for some time to come. I still have this mouthpiece and use it from time to time. A little while later, someone else I know did exactly the same thing (but on a wooden floor) with her B46.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-11-04 17:59
Wood, Buffet E11.
Football game, fell through the risers onto concrete below.
The students got very lucky - a few bent keys but no cracks in the main body.
The bell, however, is probably toast, there is only so much I can do with super glue...
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-11-04 18:19
I had a spare bell, from a prior student accident.
I have the instrument working again, but still have a few bent key rods to let a shop deal with.
Weiner Music (Mineola, NY) also carries replacement bells. This is not uncommon, especially during marching season.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-11-04 18:45
Chris P: I don't mean to disagree with your experience but I cannot agree with your opinion that non-wood material would not crack like this. And, I cannot assume that just because the horn is said to be a wood E11 that the bell is also wood. Many wood clarinets have been offered with non-wood bells......including some marketed by Buffet. Since plastic bells are typically (these days) made by injection molding (both thermoplastic and thermoset varieties) they can contain "flow lines" that can mimic grain pattern in wood. I'm still from the Doubting Thomas school of Materials Engineering and avoid using the word "never". I am a retired Metallurgical/Materials Engineer and have personally investigated many material failures. My opinion remains that "it looks like "Bakelite or hard rubber" until more proof is offered other than pewd's comment. Photos, of course, can be misleading.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-11-04 20:03
Paul "pewd" apparently knows this clarinet and its owner, so I accept his stastement that it's wood. But I also accept Bob Draznik's comment,
>>Since plastic bells are typically (these days) made by injection molding (both thermoplastic and thermoset varieties) they can contain "flow lines" that can mimic grain pattern in wood.>>
I know squadoosh about the business of manufacturing plastic, but I made the comment that I thought the broken bell looked like plastic because I've seen broken plastic and hard rubber clarinets and mouthpieces with sharp fracture lines and spikes similar to the ones in this photo.
This broken bell looks shinier and blacker than rubber, but I've got a vintage hard rubber Buffet eefer mouthpiece that shattered this way. The friendly dealer from whom I eventually bought the clarinet beat me to it by about a minute at the Georgetown flea market. The mouthpiece looked fine when he showed me his prize (he didn't actually do the Snoopy dance, but ...). My husband later saw him crawling around on the asphalt parking lot, picking up little pieces of something. When the victorious dealer sold me the same clarinet at the Civitan flea a few weeks later, the mouthpiece was a wreck, glued crookedly back together. It had broken into several sharply-pointed pieces, some missing forever; the dealer had filled in the gaps with glue!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2013-11-05 12:42
I don't have any good clarinet and concrete stories, but I have a couple good ones involving saxophones and cement/concrete.
In my first year of public school teaching in the 70s, I was teaching elementary band in a basement room with no windows and a cement (or concrete?) floor. A student came to class for the first time with a new sax. He opened the case, took out his instrument, and promptly dropped it on the floor. There was quite a dent in the bow (the bottom part that connects the body to the bell), but fortunately for him, the sax still played. If I remember correctly, he only played for a few months before giving it up.
The second story has been shared before, but it's been a while. In college, I played tenor sax in marching band and had a wonderful Couf hard rubber mouthpiece. We were coming off the field one day, and somehow, my sax came off the neckstrap and fell on a concrete sidewalk. There was a little damage to the sax (although it still played), but the mouthpiece was a goner. I went on to buy other mouthpieces for it, but none were as good as that original Couf.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-11-05 15:01
Attachment: fixed.jpg (105k)
Its wood, a 2003 model Buffet E-11. Germany.
Unfortunately, I own the instrument, I loaned it to a student to use for marching band the last 4 years, so she wouldn't take her R13 outside.
Additional surgery is still required, I'm still working on the tenon socket,
however, surprising me greatly, see the attachment. Yup, same bell.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-11-05 16:25
"Additional surgery is still required, I'm still working on the tenon socket,
however, surprising me greatly, see the attachment. Yup, same bell".
Unbelievable !
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-11-05 18:00
>Additional surgery is still required, I'm still working on the tenon socket,
however, surprising me greatly, see the attachment. Yup, same bell.
thx god for supreglue!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-11-05 20:58
Thanks Paul .....and......a great job. I'm convinced.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-05 23:23
Superglue comes to the rescue! Nice work!
You could even carbon fibre band the bell flare to further strengthen it (as the bell ring is now toast) as well as carbon fibre banding near the top of the socket and it won't crack when the bell is fitted to the lower joint tenon.
My old Selmer bells were split from top to bottom and were in four pieces and they superglued back together well. Another CT bell I experimented with carbon fibre banding was in three pieces and turned out well after being superglued and carbon fibre banded in two places by the socket.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jbosacki
Date: 2013-11-06 07:44
I was playing in Quartet a few years and had a rather unfortunate accident with my clarinet slipping a bit and hitting the tile, the clarinet itself was fine but it was hard enough to where it cracked my bell clean from top to bottom
Luckily my Festive was Still under Buffet's 10 year Warranty and they replaced it free of charge, with the same model too!
Post Edited (2013-11-06 07:44)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-11-09 15:37
The tenon is still in need of work. I need to find a few small pieces of grenadilla or delron to fill in a few missing sections. Just haven't had time, too many concerts to practice for this time of year.
But yeah, super glue is wonderful stuff.
It will be interesting to see if it holds up over time.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-09 21:16
Superglue and wood dust should fill in any voids sufficiently - you're best using wood chips or wood dust instead of plastics when filling holes in wooden instruments.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2013-11-17 02:51
It looks like it was dropped from a 3-story rooftop onto concrete - or bashed with a two pound hammer. Was he that frustrated?
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-11-17 03:14
Marching Band accident. Kicked, and fell through the stands onto the concrete floor below.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-11-18 13:53
> need to find a few small pieces of grenadilla or delron to fill in a few missing sections.
if there is no oil or you can clean it sufficiently for good adhesion epoxy works wonders. With toothpick and enough patience you can form it into proper shape - no need to sand after. Works on chipped toneholes, will work on tenon.
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