 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lucho
Date: 2013-10-15 22:20
Hi every one my name is Luis and I am from Costa Rica. I just bought a Bb Kohlert Sons, Kraslice Clarinet, mad in Czhecoslovakia.
It has a Boehm system and it has two serial numbers the one on the upper section is 2348, and the one in the lower section is 2392.
Can any one help me to know the year it was made and any other important information.
If you want you can replay to luchoer@yahoo.com
Thanks
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-10-15 22:50
Luis -
You have a "marriage" clarinet, with the top joint from one instrument and the bottom joint from another. The serial numbers are close, so the two should match with no problem.
Marriage instruments are created when the top joint of one instrument cracks, the bottom joint of the other cracks, and the two usable joints are paired together.
If it plays OK, don't worry about it.
Kraslice was the home of many instrument makers. I believe Kohlert clarinets were designed for beginning and intermediate students. I don't know of a dated list of Kohlert serial numbers, but there may be one.
Ken Shaw
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Author: lucho
Date: 2013-10-15 23:59
Thanks. Yes it works perfectly. Thanks for the info.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2013-10-16 00:15
Ken Shaw wrote:
> Kraslice was the home of many instrument makers. I believe
> Kohlert clarinets were designed for beginning and intermediate
> students. I don't know of a dated list of Kohlert serial
> numbers, but there may be one.
The approximate date of manufacture of an early Kohlert clarinet can often be narrowed down based on what information is stamped on the bell. If it is stamed "V. Kohlert Sons" or "V Kohlert Sohne" that it was made after the death of Vincenze Kohlert in ~1900. Prior to WW1 these clarinets would have been marked "Kraslice, Bohemia". After the end of the war in 1918 Bohemia was absorbed into the newly formed Czecho-Slovakia. From 1918 - ~1930 Kohlert clarinets were marked "Kraslice, Czecho-Slovakia".
Starting in the early 1930's when the region began to fall under German influence Kohlert began stamping their instruments with "Graslitz, Czecho-Slovakia". (Graslitz is the German spelling for Kraslice) When the city fell under Nazi control in 1938 the markings were changed again to read "Graslitz, Sudentengau" and remained this way until after WW2 at which point the company relocated to Winnenden Germany.
Lucho's clarinet likely dates from the 1920's assuming that the bell is original to the instrument.
As far as quality goes, Kohlert made clarinets of student, intermediate, and professional quality but far more of the former two categories than the latter.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2013-10-16 21:25
Please excuse me if I list here some details concerning the timing. You find more details (though partly erroneous or inconsistent) per search function here in this BB:
Pre- WW 1 (1918): “V. Kohlert’s Söhne Graslitz”. The Bohemian border region belonged to the Austrian Empire. Most inhabitants, also the Graslitz instrument makers like Kohlert, Püchner, Keilwerth, and many others, were German
1918- 38: “V.Kohlert’s Söhne, Graslitz, Czecho-Slovakia”. The region was part of the new Czecho-Slovak Republic. According to New Langwill they were among the largest firms of WWI makers in Bohemia with workforce of 400 in 1929 and a 23- piece orchestra.
After Nazi Germany had, by the Munich treaty of 1938, taken over the German- Bohemian border region, it was: “Graslitz, Sudetengau”.
After WW 2, till about 1948, when the Germans (“Sudetendeutsche”) were expropriated and expelled by the Czechoslovak state: “V.Kohlerta Synobe Kraslice” . The former Kohlert workshops were then taken over by the state owned Amati company.
At Winnenden near Stuttgart, South Germany, they started their business again. The instruments were then stamped “Kohlert & Co. Winnenden” They had to give up, as far as I know, about 1980. In 2010 I saw rests of their stock offered on eBay.
(How lucky we are today and here at least to live under such peaceful circumstances: The Czech were occupied and supposed to become a Nazi German colony under the mass murderer Reinhard Heydrich, then they expelled about 3 Million Germans; and when I visited the region last year, I hardly noticed the open border in the street that joins Klingenthal, Germany, and Kraslice, Czech Republic)
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2013-10-25 13:31
I have a simple-system oboe stamped "V. Kohlert's Sons Graslitz" on the front of the bell and "GERMANY" on the back. I take it that this must've been made late 1938-early 1939, figuring that they wouldn't have been stamping instruments in English for the export market once Germany went to war.
The first clarinet I restored was a Kohlert Albert Bb marked "Czecho-Slovakia." I thought it was a good, solid instrument, yet not hugely compelling, so I traded it (for an A Oehler by C. Wurlitzer). But now I often wonder how it would've performed with a better mouthpiece, as the one it came with was pretty plain...
My brother has a "Bohemia" Kohlert bassoon from c. 1908-10, with a tone to die for! So it's clear to me that Kohlert definitely made top quality instruments, but I do believe these tend to be from the pre-Winneden years.
I have a "Bohemia" Kohlert metal Eb alto that I look forward to restoring... report to follow!
Klarnetisto
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-10-25 14:05
For many years, and still today, I have played and restored literally dozens of Kohlert soprano, alto and bass clarinets, oboes, and tenor/alto saxes. In my opinion their pre-WWII instruments were top-notch, and while post WWII(the "Winnenden" era) quality slipped somewhat they were still solid intermediate-level horns, at a minimum.
In particular they made excellent bass clarinets, I've been performing on them for something like 20 years and haven't found anything I like better (that I can afford, anyway!)
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2013-10-25 23:17
@Klarnetisto: That’s interesting. I am sure you are right with your assumption that the stamping (in English) “...Kohlert’s sons... Graslitz... GERMANY"” indicates a 1938/39 origin; for export use probably “Sudetengau” wasn’t estimated opportune.
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2013-10-25 23:22
I had a Czech Kohlert metal bass clarinet pass through my home on its way to its buyer in France. It needed restoration, but most of the notes on the upper joint were still playable.
I was stunned by what I heard, a really clear, dinstinctive tone, full of character, without any thickness. And this thing was built like a tank! The metal was very heavy and solid, and the keywork as sturdy as you could imagine -- the workmanship top-notch throughout.
I really wish I could play that thing once it's restored, as I'm sure it's stunning. Now I'm on the lookout for one for myself, once I can afford it. But I'd want one with a low Eb, if they made them -- this only went to low E. It really is a bass clarinet tone that I preferred to any other I've heard.
If my Kohlert metal Eb alto turns out anything like this, I'll be one very happy fellow (I got a Clark Fobes mouthpiece for it, as a way of stacking the deck)!
Klarnetisto
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-10-26 00:55
I played a metal Kohlert bass clarinet for about 5 years, to which I had added a curved low-C extension (it was discussed a bit here and on SaxOnTheWeb, someone dubbed it "Frankenhorn"). It played and sounded just like its equally good wood brethren from that era (1930s). I sold it to a professional clarinetist in Canada, but then I think he in turn sold it some time later, so I don't know where it is now. Mine went to low-Eb, by the way. I did recently see the low-E variant on The Infernal Internet Auction Site, but (for once!) I didn't bid on it.
It was indeed built like a tank. Heaviest bass clarinet I've seen, by a considerable margin. Sort of wish I still had it.......
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