 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2013-10-14 10:28
Attachment: Kreul.jpg (113k)
That’s a German system, post- Iwan Müller, pre- Oehler model with 4 rings. In 1976 Hans Kreul, Tübingen, for example, offered similar models 27 and 28 as his cheapest clarinet models (foto!).
The wrap around speaker key was typical for Albert (“Simple System”), but also used by others.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2013-10-14 14:08
The horn in your pictures is a typical Albert system with four rings. The keywork is french not german. "Lafayette, Paris" was a trade name of Couesnon & Cie. who at one time had premises in the Rue Lafayette, Paris. Probably dates around 1900.
There are many german clarinets which are similar in that they have four rings but the keywork is distinctively german. Your horn is most definitely not an Oehler system it lacks a fifth ring, a Griffplatte and the many tone-correction keys of an Oehler system.
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Author: CHUCKO
Date: 2013-10-14 14:13
Thank you for the info--
I'm surptised to hear that anyone as recent as '76
would be promoting such a primitive system.
Any idea why a French mfc. would be involved with such production ?
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2013-10-14 16:04
Attachment: Yamaha 18.jpg (47k)
Attachment: Kreul_2.jpg (263k)
Indeed such German system clarinets with lower than Oehler configuration are produced till today, from miserable to quality student models, e.g. Yamaha 457-18 with 18 pads and four rings, grenadilla, silver plated, from 998 Euros. My own Kreul “Püstophon” from the 7ties, which I aquired some time ago at an auction for very little money, plays really nicely. It has 5 rings and 20 pads and some improvements, trills etc. Of course nowadays you wouldn’t recommend a German system 18 pad instrument to a serious student, but 20 pads would do for some years.
In case you’re interested I have uploaded photos of the Yamaha and of the complete page of the old Kreul catalog so you can see the whole range up to their Nr. 21 Oehler model. Btw: Kreul have ceased their own production years ago.
@ Chris Moffat: In my first posting from this morning I appended a foto of the German models by Kreul mentioned there. I wrote that these are “pre- Oehler” models (of course they have neither fifth ring nor “Griffplatte”). Please compare the keywork with CHUCKO’s photos. I found hardly any differences. Over here we sometimes have difficulties to see the difference between “German”, “Albert” and “Simple” systems.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2013-10-14 20:04
MichaelW; a couple of points about the keywork: C#/F# key is usually differently shaped often with a small projecting touch piece. Especially the register key is quite differently shaped (as on the Kreuls in your picture) and does not wrap around to the top. And the Albert system does not have a duodecim Verbindung found on many german system clarinets. However a 4-ring Kreul and a 4-ring Couesnon will play pretty much the same fingering-wise. Typically also german horns have a different bore size and shorter barrels than french Alberts.
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Author: CHUCKO
Date: 2013-10-15 01:18
GENTLEMEN,
Are/were the Yamaha and Kreul instruments that you have been referencing available in various keys or were the exclusively in the Key of C like the Lafayette ???
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Author: ned
Date: 2013-10-15 05:54
chris moffat wrote: ''There are many german clarinets which are similar in that they have four rings but the keywork is distinctively german. Your horn is most definitely not an Oehler system it lacks a fifth ring, a Griffplatte and the many tone-correction keys of an Oehler system.''
I'd agree with Chris here, as I owned an Oehler system some years ago. The keywork as pictured, shows what I also consider to be a standard ''Albert'' system. I have a couple of Alberts now and the keywork is strikingly similar.
I sold the Oehler system a few months later, because I could not get it to play in tune (I play jazz, if that's significant) and I believe that the tuning problem was due to the ''tone correction'' keys which Chris mentions.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2013-10-15 13:34
@CHUCKO:
According to the old Kreul Catalog (Attachment to my posting 2013-10-14, Kreul 2.jpg) in the 1970ties the Oehler model was offered in A or Bb, the "Deutsches System" models in A, Bb, C and Eb.
For today's choice look at catalogs of the following big online retailers:
http://www.thomann.de/de/klarinetten.html
https://www.reisser-musik.de/klarinetten/
Some of the cheaper "German" C-Clarinets have reduced span for children or small hands.
Post Edited (2013-10-15 13:45)
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