 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-03-31 04:59
It seems that Buffet now makes the E12F clarinet which replaces the E11 France. The body is made in France and the keys are made (and I think mounted on the body) in Germany.
There is very little info I could find about this model, unlike the E11 France, which had a big release with a deidicated (but no longer existing) website.
I'm interested to know if the E12F has the same terrible post mounting system as the E11 France or does it have the better and more traditional threaded posts?
A while ago I was told by a Buffet dealer that Buffet are going to change this post mounting system but apparantly, if they have, it wasn't on the same model. They may have used the known marketing trick of introducing the clarinet with fixed issues as new model... or not.
Anyone knows?
Thanks
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-03-31 13:07
I also see anchoring screws at the side of each post. Look particularly at the posts at the top and bottom of the right hand brille.
Ken Shaw
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2013-03-31 15:36
Yes, they are properly mounted. The clarinet actually is quite good.
However, my 1 beef on it (and I am still waiting for a clarification from Buffet on the reasoning) is that the barrel & bell tenons on the joints are larger than the traditional Buffet size - meaning that you cant just slap another bell or barrel on the clarinet unless you have a technician trim down the tenons.
However, as is, the clarinet actually plays quite well.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-03-31 15:36
In the description, note the use of the term "specially dedicated workshops." In the past, a similar description appears to have meant, "the Malerne factory." I wonder what it means these days. Did Buffet buy the Malerne factory from SML? Perhaps the old Leblanc factory? Anybody out there know?
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2013-03-31 15:44
I would assume the Schreiber facility that they purchased in 2010.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
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Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-03-31 16:36
I've seen the E12 advertised on eBay, but looking closer at some of the pictures, I noticed that "E11" was engraved on the upper joint. Hearing that there is a new model, I'd beware of someone trying to sell the remaining E11's as E12's. (Unless the seller is using stock pictures. In which case, I'd contact the seller just to be sure).
Tristan
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-03-31 16:38
Dave,
The Schreiber facility is in Germany. The description says that the E12F is being produced in "specially dedicated workshops" in France.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2013-03-31 18:11
The body is cut in France, but all the keywork and assembly is done in Germany at the Schreiber facility. The clarinet actually even says "Made in Germany" on it.
In your post, you stated "specially dedicated workshops" - but I have not seen this reference anywhere and you didnt indicate whether you or the statement was in reference to the body, keys or assembly.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-31 18:17
It was mentioned a few years back that Buffet bought the former Leblanc factory and production of the French-made student Buffets is done there - the E11 France being the first model produced since the factory was owned by Buffet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2013-03-31 18:19
This is correct. I am trying to get clarification from Buffet on whether the new E12F models have their bodies being cut in that factory or not. I suspect though that it is.
I wonder though, now that they are doing the keywork & assembly in Germany, if that old Leblanc factory is only cutting the joints on the E12F, that seems like rather a waste of factory space - I wonder if they will move other models (E13 perhaps) to that factory.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-03-31 18:46
Dave,
I was quoting the description at the Howarth's link Chris P. posted above. The first part of that description reads:
"E12 FRANCE. The new Buffet Crampon student clarinet to replace the E11 France
New instrument. New production. New design. Improved Build Quality!
Made in France by our craftsmen for you.
Free blowing, fine tuning and a high quality hand finish, with a strong HERITAGE
Constructed by traditional methods, combining TECHNOLOGY AND EXPERIENCE
Manufactured by BUFFET CRAMPON in France, in specially dedicated workshops."
I suppose that might have been written by Howarth's (or someone else) but the reference to "our craftsmen" suggests to me that Buffet was the ultimate source. If the last sentence does not refer to the entire instrument (as you indicate it cannot) then presumably it refers to those parts that are constructed in France. From what I have read elsewhere, I doubt Buffet has sufficient capacity in the main facility to cut the bodies of the E12F there. Hence the need for "specially dedicated workshops." I'm simply wondering what those are or, e.g., if they are part of the main facility.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2013-04-01 00:21
Who knows. Here is the official link on the Buffet website:
http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instruments/bc2512f
"Its body is derived from professional models and made in Buffet Crampon’s French workshops; the key assembly and quality control are carried out by our German teams in Markneukirchen."
They do not make the "dedicated workshop" quote on that page.
I would assume the bodies are still done in the old Leblanc factory as the E11 France models were. I am still waiting on clarification from Buffet on this, but so far, they have not been very willing to share that information.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2013-04-01 00:24
Upon further looking at that quote from Howarth, that is the old wording from when they release the E11 France (notice the E11France website is still quoted).
At that time, the "dedicated workshop" was in reference to the E11 France being built entirely in the former Leblanc facility.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-10-13 01:42
I just purchased one - the Barrel size tenon IS compatible with a replacement such as the Backun, or the Buffet Icon (I tried a few, and used both barrels to test it).
Very good student instrument!!!!! Much better than the E-11.
I was impressed, and the wood is gorgeous - minimal staining, looks very pretty.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-10-13 04:07
So it seems Buffet did fix the major issues of the E11 France and also used the old method of sweeping this model under the carpet and replacing it with a "new" and "different" model. After all the advertisement of the E11 France... all gone. Except the clarinets bought for much higher price (than the previous E11 made in Germany) by many people...
Well, much bigger companies have done the same thing anyway (Nikon seems to have done the same thing with a camera just recently)...
A bit disappointing but I guess at least they did find and fixed the issues... eventually...
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-20 05:14
I bought an E12F in December 2013. FWIW on the E12F lower joint it says "Made in Germany". DavidBlumberg, is yours the same?
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2014-01-20 08:23
I have two students now playing on the E12F. They are both progressing well and have developed very nice tone qualities. I always play duets with my students and find these clarinets quite easy to tune to (with). All in all, they seem to be well manufactured and play very well.
Full disclosure: I am a Buffet Authorized Dealer. However I do not normally carry or sell all models of clarinets produces by Buffet. The E12F, however, seems to be a real winner and a big improvement over the E11F.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-20 16:11
How / where did you sell your E12F? Ebay? What's the market price for it? I am getting a Ridenour Bb, and most likely will be selling my E12F if I'm happy with the Ridenour.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-20 17:19
WOW well played! I got mine for $1495 (I think) in Australia.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-20 17:55
they told me that it's a new model, not on their site yet. they call it lyrique libertas. Also hard rubber. I'm getting it with the ramt-36 mouthpiece. It is supposed to be an improvement over the 576bc.
I'm a bit unsure about it since a new model is probably unproven yet, i.e. it hasn't gone through the test of time, much like the Boeing 787 and the new airbus But I hope that Tom's judgement is a sound one in creating and recommending it based on his experience creating the 576bc.
Post Edited (2014-01-20 18:01)
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-20 13:01
I'm jealous. Mine hasn't been shipped yet, and then I'll have to wait probably for a week for it to ship to Australia.
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Author: phlukefenny
Date: 2014-09-20 03:32
I am looking to get a Buffet E12F for myself (working my way up the ladder in clarinets) Would you guys and gals recommend the E12F versus any other itermidiate model clarinets. Right now i own a Selmer Signet Special but it is very old, pitch is quite off, and the price to fix it up again is just not worth it.
My plan is to get a E12F and a Backun Fatboy barrel, does you guys think that is a good idea for someone that is not a professional yet, but working towards it?
Any suggestions would be great.
BTW, here is a link for the people wondering where and how the E12F is made...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWDb9oOvtbE
Thanks,
Lucas Fenwick (student in the arts of woodwinds)
note... my image on my profile is my senior pic from highschool
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-20 03:43
How about buying a used R13 or similar used pro model clarinet (and not just Buffet) instead of an E12F? That will save you money in the long run.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: phlukefenny
Date: 2014-09-20 03:54
Chris,
I don't know if i should do that because i have bought used clarinets in the past and they are just junk, even after fixing them up they still have not so great tone (used different mouth pieces). I know that the R13 is a popular clarinet and i am sure there are a lot of used ones out there, but do you think that i could get a good quality one for $2000-2500 USD?
btw, i am looking for a clarinet that has a rich, dark, smooth tone that is not so bright. planing on getting the Backun Fatboy Cocobolo to try and help with that.
thanks,
Lucas
note... my image on my profile is my senior pic from highschool
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Author: phlukefenny
Date: 2014-09-20 04:07
Going to post my inquires in a new/different post. don't want this post getting off topic.
lucas
note... my image on my profile is my senior pic from highschool
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-09-20 11:22
For less than that price you can get a Ridenour Lyrique Libertas clarinet. Nice dark sound, great intonation, and will never crack. I have a Backun moba barrel, but with my Lyrique I don't need it.
AAAClarinet
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Author: NP
Date: 2014-10-07 11:49
I'm a grade 5 student and planning to continue playing into high school. I was wondering if I should get a Buffet E12 or use something else. I can't play clarinets in a store as I live in an area without clarinet stores.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2014-10-07 15:43
You may be able to order two or three any choose. The E-12F is a fine choice.
Steve Ocone
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-10-07 16:54
If you're going to play out in the woods in winter you might be better off with a hard rubber horn.......
Bob Draznik
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Author: NP
Date: 2014-10-10 17:32
Would the Buffet E12F be in par with the Yamaha 650? The Yamaha is about $300 more than the Buffet but it is a professional model.
And unfortunately I have to order through the internet and am unable to test them out.
Post Edited (2014-10-11 01:50)
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Author: phlukefenny
Date: 2014-10-10 23:53
@BobD
lol, that is my Highschool Graduation Picture. I tried to show where i grew up and also show who i am with my sweatshirt and clarinet.
(OFF TOPIC)
lucas
note... my image on my profile is my senior pic from highschool
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-10-13 12:51
>> Try both - but, Leblanc Bliss (all wood) is possibly better than both <<
Possibly, but definitely not in the case of a Leblanc Bliss I have now, which has issues that I wouldn't expect on any decent student model. It has a few nice features though and it sounds good.
Post Edited (2014-10-13 13:32)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-10-13 15:24
"Possibly, but definitely not in the case of a Leblanc Bliss I have now, which has issues that I wouldn't expect on any decent student model. It has a few nice features though and it sounds good."
You may have been unlucky. I have a student Bliss and without a doubt it's the best student clarinet I've come across. Tuning and intonation are up to professional levels, fit and finish are first class and the ergonomics work well for me.
Tony F.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-10-13 17:09
This one sounds fine, maybe not as refined or even as some better clarinets, but definitely good. There are intonation issues but I think these are because of a too barrel so can't really judge. Ergonomics are ok too and although I don't like the key layout, there is nothing objectively bad about it.
The issues I was talking about are specifically alignment of front/back of key cups over tone holes (especially the bottom big keys) and unlevel tone holes. It is not an issue of needing unusually thick or thin pads. I don't know if these are common issues or not.
Post Edited (2014-10-14 08:22)
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