 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2013-09-26 05:22
I'm ordering an Oscar Adler rosewood German bass for an economical price. Do you guys think that rosewood is a good material for bass clarinets?
Josh
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-09-26 08:15
I see no inherent problem with rosewood. What's more important is how and how long it has been cured before being converted into an instrument.
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Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-26 09:32
Selmer offered their basses in rosewood for some time and they still make their contras from it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-09-26 13:16
The big mpingo (grenadilla) trees were cut down 100 years ago. They grow slowly, and it's rare to find on with knot-free sections long enough to make a contra. Also, it's the heaviest wood of all, and a contra made of it would be very hard to handle.
Rosewood has been used for woodwind instruments for a long time, particularly for the big ones.
Of course the best material for contras is plastic (or metal), both of which can be made in any size and are completely stable.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-09-26 14:16
My F. Arthur Uebel bass (Oehler-system) has a rosewood lower joint, as do my three Uebel soprano clarinets (Boehm Bb and A and Oehler Bb) all of which also came with rosewood bells. I'd guess he did that to make the lower part of the instrument lighter in weight for better overall balance of the instrument (it works). On these instruments the lower joints are stained a dark black to match the rest of the clarinets so you can hardly tell the difference in woods.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-26 14:23
Buffet still make contra altos from grenadilla.
On the contrary, plastic is by far the least stable material to make basses and contras with and you need excessive play between key rods and pillars to prevent binding when the joints shrink in with cold temperatures. Also plastic is notoriously weak where tenons are concerned.
Metal (brass or nickel silver) is by far the best material for contras, but it's a shame Leblanc contras were fairly basic in their design compared to Selmers. The most recent all metal contra to hit the market is my Benedikt Eppelsheim and has full keywork.
Amati also offer low C basses in rosewood as well as granadilla.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Fraeulein Klarinette
Date: 2013-09-26 18:23
David S. - just wondering, how do you tell whether the lower joint is rosewood? thanks.
Leister used to play a set of Uebel made of Cocobolo (I think that's German for Rosewood?) before switching to Wurlitzer and he said they are very sensitive to temperature change and he has to make an extra effort to stay in tune. But he loves the sound. That's for Bb and A though... bass may be different given its larger size
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-09-26 18:26
Not sure to whom your last question was directed, Joshua, but I'll chime in and say that my Uebel German-system bass sounds very nice to my ears. I play it in public about as often as possible. I should point out that mine is an older instrument (probably 1950s or 60s vintage, perhaps Ben will know?), so it may not be representative of recent or current Uebel bass clarinets.
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Author: Fraeulein Klarinette
Date: 2013-09-26 18:30
David, what's the serial number for your instrument? I maybe able to find out..... Uebel before the 60s are very well regarded in Germany, especially the older generations.....
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-26 21:56
Cocobolo is another Dalbergia species in with grenadilla, rosewood and kingwood, but it can be porous. It's a much less dense timber and is waxy in comparison to grenadilla - the dust can cause allergic reactions just as flute or piccolo headjoints made from it can cause allergic reactions to some players lower lips.
Oboes, d'amores and cors are often made from cocobolo and it especially is more resonant for d'amores and cors. It's bright orange in colour when freshly machined and turns a nice deep crimson when polished, but can turn even black with age and exposure to air and sunlight so it can end up looking like grenadilla. But you can tell the difference as cocobolo has a particularly strong smell to it.
... I do wish this flipping spellcheck/autocorrect thing will stop turning grEnadilla into granadilla when I hit the space bar!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2013-09-27 05:22
David, I know that your Uebel is from the older generation(probably the 60s) when they were vastly better. But the maker I have in mind is Oscar Adler, which, in a digressive sense, oboist Albrecht Mayer endorses. They offer German bass clarinets made of either grenadilla or rosewood. The reason that I want rosewood is that it is 90% the cost of grenadilla, which is almost unaffordable for my family when it comes to making German basses!
Josh
Post Edited (2013-09-28 12:10)
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2013-09-27 05:23
David, I know that your Uebel is from the older generation when they were vastly better. But the maker I have in mind is Oscar Adler, which, in a digressive sense, oboist Albrecht Mayer endorses. They offer German bass clarinets made of either grenadilla or rosewood. The reason that I want rosewood is that it is 90% the cost of grenadilla, which is almost unaffordable for my family when it comes to making German basses!
Josh
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-27 10:34
The only rosewood bass clarinet I can see Adler offer is the Model 400 which is built to low Eb and has a semi automatic speaker mechanism.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-09-27 15:42
Chris, what is rosewood, exactly? Is it a specific tree (a rosewood tree)? How hard is it compared to Grenadilla? I have a C clarinet made by Patricola that is described as "rosewood," but I was never sure exactly what that meant.
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-09-27 16:29
Ken Shaw wrote:
> "Rosewood" covers many varieties. The Wikipedia article is
> weak, but a quick Google search turned up several sources of
> information on the first screen:
>
Thanks, Ken. I'm going to have to postpone looking at those links until later tonight, but you confirm my impression. When I sent the rosewood Patricola out to Morrie Backun (who did a fantastic job on it) we talked a little by phone about what the clarinet was actually made of and he wasn't altogether sure, describing "rosewood" as a fairly generic term used to describe several woods that include reds in their color.
I'll look at those articles later.
Karl
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2013-09-27 16:33
Chris, on special request all 3 models can be made with either any of the 2 of these wood species.
Josh
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2013-09-28 07:09
Will rosewood decrease the volume of the instrument? Or any acoustical differences from grenadilla?
Josh
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2013-09-28 13:03
"I have a C clarinet made by Patricola that is described as "rosewood," but I was never sure exactly what that meant."
I worked on a "rosewood" oboe from Patricola. The grain and hairiness across the tone holes was some of the worst I've ever seen. It consequently leaked like a sieve.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-09-28 16:17
(Off-topic alert)
Fraulein Klarinette: Here are the serial numbers on my F. Arthur Uebel instruments:
Oehler-system bass: 14066
Oehler-syste Bb soprano: 65155 (also engraved with model number 621)
Boehm-system Bb: 72 16 15 (with spaces between pairs of numbers)
Full-Boehm A: 76643 (with model number 822)
If you can determine manufacture dates from these serial numbers, it would be appreciated (by me, anyway) though perhaps of little or no interest to the rest of the BB.........
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Author: Fraeulein Klarinette
Date: 2013-09-28 16:58
David,
no expert in this but I think:
Oehler-system bass: 14066 - around 1955 (assuming there is no model number etc anywhere? should be a superb instrument!)
Oehler-syste Bb soprano: 65155 (also engraved with model number 621), not sure about this one, potentially from after 1984 when they don't put the year of production in their serial number
Boehm-system Bb: 72 16 15 (with spaces between pairs of numbers) 1972
Full-Boehm A: 76643 (with model number 822) 1976
From the article below (in German) serial number in the GDR era works this way: first 2 digit year of production and rest the number of clarinets they produced that year... so your Boehm Bb would probably be the 1615th clarinet produced in 1972.
Serial number between 7,000-17,800 were made when Uebel was independent and Uebel himself was alive (died 1963).
http://www.museum-markneukirchen.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=652&p=1964&hilit=+Uebel+Klarinette#p1964
Hope this helps
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