 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2013-09-25 09:12
The action on a clarinet is considerably stiffer than on an oboe or a flute. Why is this so? On a bassoon it can be explained by the fact that you need big springs to open and close those big keys and holes. One exception: Seggelke. The springs on his clarinets have very little resistance and this isn't what we're used to, so we don't particularly like this state of affairs.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-09-25 10:50
Sorry, ruben, I don't have a clue. And their website doesn't offer any either. Perhaps their pad/tone hole combination provides adequate sealing without the "normal" pressure.
Bob Draznik
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2013-09-25 11:18
Several years ago, there was a thread on this bboard started by someone who mistakenly thought adjusting the springs to make the keys stiffer to play would enhance their ability to play rapidly.
There seems to a minimum spring force needed to keep the normally-closed keys closed or else they will leak (or buzz) when playing fff, especially in a bass clarinet. Aside from those keys, I adjusted my normally-open keys for minimum force and unhooked redundant springs and that suits me fine especially for the pinky (little finger, lower range) keys D, Db, C.
I further adjusted those lower keys to reduce their [normally] open spacing (without affecting the intonation) and thus require less finger motion (and easier transfer of a finger from one key to an adjacent key).
Seems to help.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2013-09-25 13:05
Thank you! Very interesting and analytical. I wonder why nobody thought about this before. I'll experiment on an old clarinet. Maybe we unconsciously seek homogeneous resistance on all keys.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2013-09-25 14:34
For normally open tone holes I adjusted springs to reduce pressure required, and carefully did same, by testing for leaks, some normally closed ones.
richard smith
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Author: morbius
Date: 2013-09-25 15:35
My main issue is with the "A" key spring....how stiff or light???? One of my technical issues is getting off that key quick enough in fast passages, so this does become an issue for me. Further, is there a difference between stiffness and quickness? P.S. I use cork pads on the upper joint.
John Dorch
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-25 16:16
The throat A key should be sprung so it will remain closed and the action will feel snappy instead of heavy. The problem you do have with the throat A key spring is the end of the spring is very close to the fulcrum (the rod screw) and only goes past by a couple of millimetres at the most. Ideally the free end should contact the body far more than that but the G tonehole is in the way, so you have to make the curve of the spring and where it contacts the body as far from the key barrel as possible. It also helps to have the spring tip run against a metal insert in the slot instead of making contact with wood as it can dig into the wood after a while. The spring should be bent in such a way and tensioned (balanced) so the action of the A key is positive but not sluggish and will return promptly when released so the pad seats immediately.
Where ring keys are concerned and any other open standing keys, they can be made as light as you want them to provided the weight of the key doesn't counteract them so they fall closed under their own weight under normal circumstances. Ring keys aren't meant to be felt while playing but should close along with the fingers - you shouldn't consciously have to feel you're closing the ring keys, you're just closing open toneholes with your fingers and the rings just happen to move as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-09-25 19:51
Some players, myself included, like a more balanced spring tension across the instrument so there is a consistent feel.
This requires that although some keys could be really lightly sprung they should actually have enough tension to give a feel closer to that of the keys that need a slightly heavier spring e.g. the F#/C#.
The point above re "snappy" is important and is more to do with the spring shape and positioning than it's actual strength.
Heavy springing is often used to mask poorly seated pads (as is that device that Buffet ships ,or used to ship?, to hold down the bottom pads on it's student clarinets).
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-09-25 21:03
Of the several new Buffet clarinets that I've bought in the past, the springs have generally been too strong and the rings too high for my taste. They can easily be adjusted. The workers in the factory don't have to play them!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-25 21:34
Yamaha clarinets are usually set up with very firm spring tensions, but they can be lightened easily enough.
The worst spring on all Buffet Bb/A clarinets is the RH F#/C# key - the spring is mounted on the key itself and the end digs into a slot milled into the wood. Not the easiest spring to balance right as it's a short thick spring, so the action is either heavy or too light so the pad rebounds when the key is released, but never 'just right'.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2013-09-25 22:42
Now Chris, when I write that, I have got in the habit of concluding with, "Shame on Buffet". They have done this miserable thing for decades. A design botch-up that would be so easy to correct.
I sometimes gain a little more spring length and improved the action by having the spring run in a small groove milled into the post alignment washer, instead of in the timber.
Post Edited (2013-09-25 22:43)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-26 00:26
That's what Howarth do on their clarinets - they have the point of the F#/C# spring locate in a slot milled into the (wide diameter) pillar base instead of being in direct contact with the wood.
While some may not be a huge fan of Bundy and other Selmer USA clarinets, they do have a needle spring on the throat A key which in many respects is better than some flat springs used for this application. While lever keys usually favour flat springs, there are instances where a needle spring will work better.
Old Albert/simple systems often have short flat springs mounted on the touchpiece side which dig into the joint or metal saddle when operated. But you're most likely to find long flat springs screwed to the pad cup end of lever keys which is much better as they can be balanced much better than a short spring, although Leblanc/Noblet/Normany/Vito used very short flat springs on the side/trill keys on their clarinets.
Standard 17 key 6 ring Boehm system clarinets have nine closed standing keys on the top joint and three on the lower joint - the only open standing keys are the ring keys and the F/C and E/B keys, so a total of five (some may have the thumb ring lightly sprung 'open' as well). The most basic Albert/simple system clarinets (with just two rings for RH fingers 2 and 3) have ten closed standing keys (seven on the top joint and three on the lower joint) and four open standing keys (lower joint rings, the doubled F/C key/'Patent C#' mechanism and the low E/B pad cup).
If you're planning on cork padding your Buffets, then reduce the spring tension on the trill/side key springs as cork pads don't need excessive spring tension to ensure they close against the tonehole.
Where flutes differ is they have mostly open standing keys (and usually a minimum of four closed standing keys) which are more reliant on finger pressure to close them, so the springs should be as light as possible so you get the sense you're not having to force the keys closed (as long as the pads are all seating well). Saxes have much heavier gauge and heavier tensioned springs due to the weight of their keys which are considerably larger than flute keys, but closed standing keys do need more spring tension to be sure they don't blow open.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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